doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT-Shell Pressure and early pumps/auto's

I have seen discussions on shell pressure and early sxs's but do those of us with early pumps and auto's (Rem 17 and Win 12)need to also be concerned with the pressure of the shells we are feeding to our guns?

Ken a barrel is a barrel. It doesn't matter if there's one or two. Enough pressure will blow any barrel.

I am more concerned about excessive wear and the gun coming loose than the barrel letting go. Do I need to feed low pressure shells to my prewar pumps and auto's or are they "tougher" than my prewar doubles?

I kinda' doubt there will be much trouble with the two you mentioned. I used to own a first year model 12 that is now owned by a friend and has been eating a steady diet of off the shelf ammunition-it hasn't been modified from 2 1/2 inch chamber, and hasn't had the ejection port touched, and it eats regular ammunition like it was designed to. Good steel, from a good era, and a hefty action and barrel built into the design.
I still own a model 17 I bought in 1977 or so, and if it was possible to hurt, I would'a done it by now-I fed that gun everything under the sun, and used it as my only repeater, and guide gun for a long time. Later, it was a loaner and gun safety class gun, and it has had more ammunition through it than I could buy again at this point in my life. A 1933 gun, it has a 2 3/4 inch chamber from the factory.
Of course, firing a gun with an obstruction will get you some interesting things, but, normal ammunition fired at normal targets is just a days work for the above two guns.They are old enough that a headspace measurement wouldn't hurt a thing, but, don't be surprised if that is normal, either. Some of the 1897s out there have a damascus tube, but, not many. I'll bet they have all seen a high pressure load or two, as well, but, I didn't feed it to them.
Best,
Ted

Ken, I wouldnt be too concerned about a Model 12 or 17. On the other hand some of the early hammer Marlin pumps the Winchester 1893 and the Spencer pump would give me pause. They are pretty fragile compared to the others.
Just my not very informed opinion.
Lawrence

Many, many years of Super-X and Federal Hi-Powers gave my Uncle a facial cut in the late 1950s when the breechbolt of a Marlin Model 26 let go. Continuous use of those shells in Grandpa's heavy 1890-vintage Twist barrel PH-Grade Parker Bros. never stopped it.

I had always shot my early/pre-war pumps with what ever off the self ammo that was available including express and promo loads. I had never had a problem but since I know that these can be gun killers on early SXS's and I started thinking that my early pumps were also designed around the lower pressure shells and I might be hurting them. Thanks for the input.

The Marlin Hammer pumps are not safe to be fired with any loads according to Marlin. Take that for what it's worth. I have seen a couple with the breech bolt sheered off. The Winchester 93 was designed for black powder, the Model 97 a strengthened redesign of it (they thought enough of damascus barrels to offer them on the M97 but redesign the action for the smokeless powder). P.O. Ackley once rebarreled a M97 to 30-06 and fired many rounds through it to 'see if the breeching would hold up',,and it did. The Stevens 520 is fine with modern shells though the early guns, like most any mentioned here, will have short chambers. They started making them in 1911. The Spencer I would stick w/BP level loads if I shot it at all. Win 12, Rem 17, Rem 10, 29, 31,,all hold up fine with modern loads. Any gun will wear out and wear out faster with the heavy stuff. Continued use of the takedown feature if present will accelerate wear at that point. Most have an adjustment for take-up. I shoot alot of pre war pump guns and have always used my own light reloads in them for the most part but on occasion off the shelf ammo goes through some of them without concern.

Hi Kutter:

Can you document a source where Ackley rechambered a M 97 to 30 06?

Thank you,

FRanchi

I read a lot of P O Ackley's writings over the years & also recall him mentioning this, think it may be in his two volume reloading manual. Not sure but, Roy Dunlap may have also mentioned it in his book "Gunsmithing". I do note though that Kutter did say he "Re-Barreled" the M-97 to .30-06. Quite obviuously a 12 or 16 ga cannot be "Re-Chambered" to an '06.