doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Comments Please on My Birmingham Gun

This is a recently acquired Birmingham proofed gun. It is in nice condition as you can see with the original Browning on the Laminated Steel bbls. It is Marked "Fred Williams" IXL on the locks and a small JB on the frame in front of the locking bolt
cutout.Any ideas on JB or Fred Williams?
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Stallones:

The marks are a little blurry, but look to be pre-1885. I can see the "BP" surmounted by a "Crown" and the "Crossed Scepters" inspection/view mark. But what is the 3rd and 4th mark from the breech? I've read of a Frederick Williams on Weaman Street, Birmingham but I thought he was in business around the last decade of the 19th century.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The 3rd Marks are 14 on each bbl and the 4th Marks are the Crown and Crossed Scepters again.

I think i remember seeing that gun on Auction Arms? Looks nice, i'd love to have the butt plate!

But i'll settle for your Ideal!

It was on Auction arms, unfortunately some Moron cut the tips of the firing pins off and the retaining screws are frozen.

I suspect the JB is Joseph Bourne, from Birmingham, who apparently made a number of guns for the trade, as well as some under his own name.
Nice looking gun. Hopefully you can get new pins in it.

It looks an awful lot like it may have come from the W. & C. Scott shop in the mid-1870's. And the birds on the buttplate have a more than a passing resemblence to those frequently found on higher grade Scotts.

Joe,
It does have some similarity to some Scotts that I have seen.
I think it was made in the early 80's with the low Hammers when cocked, cyl bore however.

F. Williams Gun Works Was Located in Weaman street in Birmingham, [Same street as the old Webley and Scott factory] The building was still standing in the eary 1960,s. A plaque on the building stated" F.Willams. American Gun and Cycle Works."
The Williams guns that I have owned were of the same or lesser quality to the example illustrated.The name on the building suggests that Williams utilized machining and selective assembly to reduce the cost of his guns. Williams was in business from 1873 through the early 1900,s Locations of record are 49-50 and 32-33 [likely a numbering revision] Weaman Street. Some guns may have have a 47 1/2 Whittal Street adress as they appear to also to have had a branch works at this location.

Probably glued. Might try getting it hot with a screwdriver heated with a torch.

Pretty gun.
Brent