doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why are there no titanium barreled sxs's?

I really like lightweight shotguns, my question is why has no one built a shotgun (either a sxs or o/u) with titanium barrels and/or frame. That way you could have a very lightweight gun without sacrificing things such as barrel length.
Steve

Tony Galazan has built titanium Model 21s. He showed them at the Las Vegas show. Just bring money!!

I just did a hasty look through the CSMC site and couldn't find the titanium Model 21s.

A & S will build you their Posiden or Aventis models with titanium frames. I have not ever heard of barrels in titanium. I am sure there is some stress or metalurgical reason why not. What is the reason for the longer barrels if it is not for the dynamics of the additional weight? I also think that a 12-ga. that is less than about 6.5# is has got to be a real ass kicker in the recoil department.

Bill G.

With modern steels and alloys, gun weight could easily be reduced without resorting to expensive materials like titanium. But most gun buyers prefer not to be hammered by guns too light for the loads they shoot.

I have a 5# 1 ounce 16 gauge sxs and it is a real ass kicker (I shot a few rounds of skeet with it this past weekend). Still it's a great game gun, I only wish it were a 5# 12 gauge because of amunition avaliability. As I've said in other posts, recoil isn't much of an issue with me, the only thing extra I do with my 16 gauge is to wear a cotton work glove with the thumb and forefinger cut off to protect my middle finger from trigger guard bruising.
I found the Model 21 Researcher wrote about, a 7# 1 ounce 12 gauge with a titanium frame and a (yick!) single trigger.
Steve

Here is the link to the titanium framed Model 21, but I seem to recall the ones at Las Vegas had titanium barrels as well.

http://www.csmcspecials.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=11007

Titanium alloyed with aluminum and vanadium in the form of 6Al4V, produces a heat treatable alloy that has strength properties similar to chromoly steels. There are some ductility limitations that are lower, but overall Ti could be a workable substitute for barrels.

Ti is not all that expensive for the raw metal in the scheme of custom gun costs, but the product cost could be affected by the additional machining costs. Ti is a bit tougher on tools and takes some additional time to machine. The problem with Ti is the expense in forging or any other "hot" processing since it will burn in an oxygen atmosphere at the extreme temps. So, billet made products are more economical with Ti if it is a low production product.

Aluminum is lighter than Ti and has been used successfully in a number of o/u guns (frames) including the K80, Citori, Caesar Guerini and probably others. But people seem to like expensive to produce material better. Myself included.

What materials were used in the ultra light Bretton O/U guns Roger Barlow used to write about? Probably mostly aluminum, given the time frame; I've never seen one, but recall they pushed the design envelope.

I talked to Ken Genneco about insert tubes for the infamous "Basket Case Optimus". I was considering Briley Ti, he showed me aluminum ones he makes that are similar to the Purbaughs from a few years ago. Seemed even lighter, but hard to tell when just tossing them in your hand. Genneco can make a single gauge reduction (12 to 16) while I believe the Briley require two reductions (12 to 20).

Super light barrels are tough to shoot, IMHO. Remember the fiberglas-barreled Winchesters of the 50's? Terrible dynamics.

We have steels and 'right now' technology to build ultra light shotgun barrels without the need for titanium.
As chuck notes, some of the processes we can work our steels aren't cross-functional to titanium alloys.

Replacing receiver material with aluminum or titanium never made so much sense to me -- in that especially with a double, the 'magic' in the handling comes from keeping the guns slender, slinky, and with the weight between the hands.
The receiver is metal between the hands.

I think the reason then to Steve's 'why...' is that we 'have it' already with high tech barrel steels, slender designs, and long boring bits to balance things from the stock end -- without the unnecessary cost of processing highly exotic materials.


--Tinker