doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 410 Challenge

Here's a Stevens Model 311 in 410 that resides in my gun cabinet. The neat thing about it is that it's still in remarkably good condition unlike many I see. It's hard to tell from this picture but most of the case coloring is still present. The only surface that shows any real wear is the "anodised" trigger guard:
Jim

Jim,
You're almost there, just lose those Full chokes (which I'm sure it has) and go with cylinder on the right barrel, modified on the left and you'll have one helluva preserve bird gun, or wild bird gun if you're a good shot. Oh ya, make certain its chambered for 3" shells, if it's not I'd just have the forcing cones extended about 1.5"s (I'll loan you my .410 forcing cone reamer).
Steve

I didn't realize it in my mis-spent youth, but, smokeless loaded modern ammunition loses punch at low temperatures. A LOT of punch, in reality. In the 1980s, I just figured those guys with the .410 monogram this and AAHE that were lousy, unpracticed shots. Moving them up to a 12 pump, especially in "weather", be it blowing snow or deep cold, would usually seem to put them at ease and onto pheasants that thought nothing of flushing wild, into the wind, at 40 yards.
I always assumed simply putting away their good (read-expensive) gun took their minds off breaking something worth more than the guide's pickup, dog, spare gun and gun put together. But I think (now) the cold often factored into lousy, smallbore shooting.
If you guys need more "sport", hunt naked. But, do it with a 12 gauge. I've always considered a winged and lost wild bird a sin. I wish more people did.
Best,
Ted

Steve:
The gun is chambered for 3" shells so I'm halfway there. I take the choke situation under consideration and it might make a good quail gun in that configuration.
Jim

Seems like a lot of circular talking here to me. Where is the "Extra Challenge" of carrying the small bore, with it "Magnumized" into the "Semi-Equivelent" ballistics of a Wally-World 20ga. A Dainty little 3½-4lb 2" chambered gun carrying 5/16oz shot is the way to go. AH, but it's range is limited & it doesn't have enough mass to swing smooth, WELL, isn't that the whole point. Your 6lb, 3" guns are simply "Cheaters", Shame-Shame on you.
Personally, I am well aware that I am only an ordinary/average shot & need all the help I can get. My "EGO" is given a better boost by making a clean kill than by having a small hole down my barrel, so I am quite content to carry 20 through 12's depending upon exact type of hunting being done.

Is it circular or non-starting? Conclusions, for some, are nothing more than their assumptions. If we assume that a gun must be capable of taking any and all reasonable wild bird presentation offered, there is no reason to consider the merits of a .410. It has none.

But I can't see where such assumptions are being made here.

As to motivation, I don't think we can all be lumped together. Challenge isn't the consideration for me. It's more the gun. The appeal of taking a Model 42 afield is something you appreciate or not. Accepting the range limitations of the shells are a simple corollary. If you can somehow lay off a 50 yd presentation when carrying a 12 you can lay off a 30 yd presentation when you're carrying a M-42.

For that matter, I don't have a problem respecting the different range limitations of a full choke 16 ga M-12 vs a 20 ga M-21 skeet gun.

Or maybe we should all hunt with 12 ga Benelli SBEs?

Sam

Probably millions of birds will be wounded this coming season...nearly all with a 12ga. If it is a concern of some, I think they should reconsider hunting with a shotgun as all the variables such as range estimation, speed of target, lead estimation, fatigue, failing vision, inexperience, eye dominance, ..... play into a game shot and make the odds of hitting solidly a flying target start to diminish rapidly. The old and very young often have more stacked against them when trying to hit a wild bird. Hunting in blowing snow that is deep and caused fatigue, then shooting 40 yrds really decreases the odds of a solid, fatal hit with any shotgun. The implication of some standard of 'responsibility' that is crossed with simply using the .410 to hunt with seems to ignore other common factors.

The idea that somehow a 6lb 3" .410 is dishonest really escapes me. Wouldn't this logic apply to the 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" 12ga? This thread simply encourages trying the .410. Why all the 'my ground is higher than yours' stuff?

Lets see, it's okay too:
-choke your 12 bore F/F and be able to load 3.5" shells for ducks and geese.
-choke your 12 bore F/C and use 3.5" high velocity shells for pheasants
-choke your 12 bore Sk/Sk and shoot shells with #9 shot for skeet.
But somehow you're "cheating" if you do all you can to get maximum performance, for the job at hand, from your .410. Do I detect a note of hypocracy here?
As far as crippled birds, the people who should be taken to task are those that hunt without dogs, if that is truly your issue. And yes I realize that not everyone can or should own a dog, my only point is that they can find the birds with their nose that we can't find with our eyes (how about the +40 yards birds that fall dead and can't be found in heavy cover).
All you guys talking about crippling game, what are you doing shooting at birds past 40 yards with your 12 gauge. With greater range we have more open patterns, more chance of crippling a bird, gee thats the same argument you're using against .410's.
I said in my original statements "under 30 yards", yet somehow it's okay to shoot at pheasants that are +40 yards out, as long as you have a 12 gauge with 3.5" shells, thats been maximized for upland hunting.
You crippler guys keep going back to the same old argument that basically say it's okay for a 12 gauge but not for a .410.
Steve

Steve-

As a note, you might see this as support...
Every bird I've shot with 9mmrimfire died very quickly.
All of them.
They were all hit within 10-15 feet of the muzzles.

I get it.
It's easy to gauge one's use of the gun to the situation.
It's even easier to disregard the limitations of one's kit and lose opportunities or wound game.


--Tinker

Everyone, I apologize about the hypocrite remarks I made above, apparently my frustration got the best of me! I think a better term is "double standard" when comparing 12 gauges to .410's and I think I illustrated that pretty well in my last post. All I ask is that before you make up your mind based on preconcieved ideas often hatched in your childhood (with that damn single shot full-choked .410 your dad bought for you) or by the unsubstantiated words of others, I'd just like the learned people on this board to try what I suggest, just as you would or have already done with their 12 gauge guns. Just remember, at one time people were burned at te stake for saying the world was round, yet they weren't wrong now were they.
Steve