doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 410 Challenge

How to make all your hunting buddies think you’re an “expert shot”.

1. I know it's hard but try to forget about that frustrating POS single shot .410 your dad bought for you when you were a kid. Those damn things have soured more folks on .410s then anything else out there!
2. Obtain a .410 sxs, one chambered for 3” shells.
3. Make certain the gun fits you well, spend the time to pattern it for point of impact.
4. Forget about the full chokes it comes with, have it rechoked to cylinder (or skeet) and modified. In my opinion modified is the .410 equivalent of full.
5. Take it out to the skeet range, and/or shoot some short range trap (to emulate a pointed bird flushing). Do this to give yourself confidence that the gun will indeed do its job.
6. Take it out upland hunting, I recommend 3” shells loaded with #7.5 shot (the pellet count for 3/4 ounce #7.5 shot is nearly the same as 1 ounce of #6 shot) at ranges under 30 yards, the bird won’t be able to tell the difference in shot size.

For you guys who are just average shots like me prepare to be astounded. Even after shooting countless preserve birds with my .410, I hear the anemic “pop” the gun makes, I see the bird drop and I still say to myself “wow it actually works!” For you guys who truly are expert shots, you’ll soon learn that a well centered shot with a .410 will make the bird just as inedible as if you’d done the same with your 12 gauge.

Based on a lot of book and internet research augmented by field research (hunting), the above recommendations are what I’ve found work for me, I doubt that very few .410 enthusiasts would disagree much with my recommendations (however, I’m open to other folks constructive opinions).

And remember this is a challenge, I'll only listen to you .410 naysayers after you've gone through the above described drill. I doubt that any who do will be .410 naysayers any longer.
Steve

Steve, what a pleasure to see the truth printed about the .410. You are spot on! I have one I've been shooting all my life and I can unreservedly say that it will cleanly take any bird at 35 yards. I've shot a load of shell through that little LC Smith with the same results as with all the other gauges. When I wa growing up, I killed a huge pile of mallards with it in Arkansas. As you so rightly pointed out, use the 3" shell with 7 1/2's for hunting. The difference between it and the 1/2 ounce load of the 2 1/2 inch shell is large. I use the 2 1/2 incher for skeet and sporting clays because the range where I shoot won't let you use the 3".

Steve-


I'm totally with you on the little .410
The three inch chambers are plenty for close birds (of appropriate size)
My miniature 2-1/2" .410 SxS will flatten close-range pigeons on the wing with 7/16oz of shot over blackpowder.

Also, I kill pigeons at the bay doors of my machine shop with a rimfire 9mm shotgun.
Any of these inner-city pigeons unfortunate enough to linger in the air of my workshop doors looking for a handout get their breast smacked. There are a couple tomcats who know the drill.
They come running when they hear the 'plip' of the little cape gun, on the birds before the feathers settle.
There's no lead hazard either, as these stray cat characters seem to only be interested in the crunchy-yet-squishy pigeon heads.

Seems I have a good deal going with the local cats.
They keep the mice away from my buildings as well!


--Tinker

Atta boy! Steve.

Only a few other things I'd add. Forget about trying to find a 5 lb little gun if you don't normally shoot a 5 lb gun in other gauges well. I've found a gun in the 6 lb range handles well for me and I shoot well with it. Extremely light guns require extremely good shooters, IMO. That's probably a fairer statement than "the .410 is an experts gun", IMO. People that insist that a .410 has to be light 'because that's the whole point' are missing the real point, IMO. The 'real point' IMO, is enjoying yourself, and I think the first time you anchor a hunted up quail, chukar, or even pheasant with a .410, you'll experience extreme enjoyment. Wild birds with the .410 are doubly enjoyable.

On the use of the .410 on wild pheasant, I've taken only one wild SD pheasant with a .410 3" #7 1/2 shot Federal. It fell dead with a head shot during its crossing flight. I can't say I can recommend it for wild pheasant roosters going away at over 25 yds or so, but I haven't actually taken a shot like that with a .410.

I did have very good experience with pen raised pheasant hens this last spring using the Federal 3" #6 shot load. I'm thinking of trying it on some wild SD pheasant this yr. That should be enough penetration for the going away roosters out to 30 yrds. Just for the record and the doubters, I took the second highest number of birds on that spring "all in" cleanup hunt for that farm. Second only to a truly fantastic shot with a 28ga. All the other hunters were using either 12g or 20g guns. I was the lone .410 in 15 hunters on 2 or 3 sections (sq/miles to you easterners)

Another factor is confidence. You have to have confidence that the gun and shells you are shooting will do the job. This was really tough for me initially. Not having seen a wild quail, let alone a wild rooster pheasant, drop from a .410 in my life, I lacked confidence. Several yrs of various clay shooting with a .410 helped, but still I was skeptical. Once you start taking game with one, the confidence will come and come in heaps. Do your job and the .410 will do its job.

And once again, I'll swear to you that I'm not an 'expert shot' by any means. In fact, I think I'm average for someone that shoots clay birds and hunts regularly. I think Jim Legg, Builder and others that have shot with me can attest to my 'average' shooting.

If you elect to shoot some trap with the 2 1/2" .410, use shot of at least #8 or larger. #9 shot will simply dust the paint on a trap bird going away at moderate trap distances.

I enjoy the 410 alot for all shooting within its limits. I'm still waiting for the bigger is better folks to make the 6" .410 that does everything a twelve will do. I fully expected it when they made the 3 1/2" twelve.

If you've read this far then maybe I've caught your interest. For more info on .410s click on http://www.4-10.freeuk.com/ it's a website for .410 enthusiasts, it even has two articles written by yours truly.
Steve

My experience is about the same. I've chronographed and pattern tested several 3" loads, and the RP is so far above velocity specs that I have to wonder how they do it at sane pressures. On paper, the RPs throw the most dense patterns through lighter constrictions.

I agree that the full choke .410 is not the best way to go with a payload that is best for 25 to maybe 30 yds. Even so, the RP in #6 gave me a 20" "dead-phez" pattern at all of 40 yds. At more sensible distances it would likely burgerize. If all I had was a full choke gun I'd run some Win 3" shells on paper; they give nice uniform (albeit more open) patterns for me.

I get the same "wow, how is that possible" cerebral instant message when I'm on a phez out to 25 yds or so. I think the biggest problem folks are apt to have with the .410 afield stems from lack of confidence. You don't have to be Digweed to use one effectively within 25 to 30 yds. But you must not abandon sound technique by giving that small bore diameter free rent in your head.

Sam

The bluebird gun is for bluebird weather. The Californians and Texans haven't spent enough quality time in the field at -10. With their .410s. Seeking hunted birds.

Standard equipment in the truck in my guiding days was a spare shotgun in the same 12 gauge I brought along. It was "just in case" someone's gun broke, but, I don't ever recall it being used for exactly that purpose. It did get used to do stand-in for .410s and 28 gauge guns, that weren't up to the sideways snow, sub-zero cold, or real life wild bird habitat.

Make sure the guided remove all traces of 28 gauge ammunition in this case. They can be an excitable lot, when they start connecting on wild birds.

Best,
Ted

Ted
Ah Texans and Californians, things aren't always what they seem. I only recently moved to Texas (though I did live here in the late 70's through most of the 80's, I am a geologist after all). I've done quite a bit of hunting in sub-zero weather, in fact I love cold weather, enough so that winter hunting and winter camping trips were the norm around our house. I'm cold-blooded enough (must be my German/Norwegian ancestory) that I'm perfectly comfortable using a 20 to 30 degree rated sleeping bag in -5 degree temperatures. It's excessive heat/humidity (like we have here in Houston summers) that I find tough to take!
The only problem I found using my .410 hammer gun in the cold was that the darn trigger guard was scaled to the size of the gun, it looked nice but it's too small for my gloved finger, even wearing nothing but a glove liner on that hand.
Steve

Ted
I can see where a guy may prefer a larger bore and have no qualms with that. Heck, I've picked up a 12g on occasion in the last few yrs. Some of my favorite guns are 12g. But if a guy is looking for a bit more challenge in his shooting that may be 'routine' or not so rewarding, picking up a small bore adds something only the shooter of one will appreciate. And no, a 16g is not a 'small bore' in my book.

A .410 isn't for everyone's hunting nor for every hunting situation, IMO, although I've seen where one friend has made it his only hunting(upland) gauge, for dove, quail, chukar, grouse and pheasant. He can afford all the KFC he wants, so this isn't about limiting or eating, but about hunting.