doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Steel shot and double guns

Hey Larry:

Take a chill pill. Snipe Hunter asked what sorts of guns folks ran steel through, and I gave him my answer. Besides, most manufacturers won't warrant their shotguns for use with any sort of handload, lead or steel. How many "experts" get stopped by that, including you?

As for you and Snipe Hunter arguing that lead should be banned on shooting ranges, don't paint yourself too deep in a corner here. I'm not for banning lead on shooting ranges. What about that statement isn't clear to you?

Shoot a ton of steel from your BSS, and crack a smile every once in a while....

Wink,
GG

Skip, I have shot the SKB 100 and 200's for over 30 years and have owned several.Regarding steel shot,I have two guns,model 100's, that were factory 2 3/4" 30" mod and full and chrome lined.Sending them to a smith with carbide reamers they are now 3" with one at cyl and mod and the other at mod. and mod.One for decoy work and the other for pass shooting ducks and geese.They have both digested several thousand steel loads of various sizes and show no major ill effects.the mod and mod barrels which have had a large number of BB and BBB through them may have an almost imperceptible bulge at the chokes.This is not measurable with my bore gauge and is barely visible as a reflection.I would say less than a thou.and certainly does not affect efficiency as the mod choke will kill cleanly with high velocity loads that are well centered, to 50 yds.The SKB guns are exceptional and have gone where my vintage guns fear to tread.

My steel-shot sxs is a Miroku Daly Model 500 bored IC and Mod. Someone before I bought it (I think Jim Legg claimed he re-did it) had oil finished the stocks and hung a magnum recoil pad on it. It has 2 3/4" chambers but the short steel shells in #2 seem to handle mallards and geese just fine. I don't know how many steel shells it has digested (a lot though), and I don't see any damage to the gun at all...Geo

I appreciate the information. I failed to mention earlier that this would not be a waterfowl gun. I got tired of getting pounded with 3" 12 gauge steel in the 870 I have used for the last quarter of a century so four months ago I got a Beretta gas gun for the ducks. I will only shoot snipe with the gun I am looking to get, and if you don't hunt these little four ounce birds I can tell you that they are as fragile as any game bird. I should have no problem getting the job done with 20 gauge 2 3/4" loads of 3/4 oz of #7 steel.

Skip

I would not hesitate to recommend an SKB 100 or 200 20 ga. with 26" imp.cyl and mod chokes and it will handle the 2 3/4" x 3/4oz. #7 steel loads you want to use with no problem.IMHO they would make a very fine gun for snipe. Fast handling and very well made.
Good luck in your search.... Terry

I'd think SKB's, whether of the Ithaca import era or later production, would be OK with steel--but it's always wise to ask the manufacturer. As noted above, since tight chokes can be a problem with steel and since you can get tight patterns with mod anyhow, I'd avoid shooting steel through SKB's choked full. The main problem with the Ithaca-era guns, for steel, is that most of the 12's were 2 3/4", which limits you somewhat when shooting steel. But if you don't need any more than 2 3/4" steel loads, they're likely a good choice.

GG, when Browning says "no steel" in certain guns, they're not talking about reloads. They're talking factory. Note that they don't say "don't use the following lead factory loads". And also note that they don't say "Don't shoot steel in any of our Japanese-made guns." Their warning is very SPECIFIC.

Here's some advice for you: If you want support from knowledgeable shotgunners for your group's suggestion that a total lead ban in the uplands should be explored, then . . . GET YOUR SH*T TOGETHER before you finalize your proposal. When manufacturers like Browning and Parker Repro say "Do not shoot steel!" in guns made into the 70's and 80's, then don't say something like "Steel is safe in all modern shotguns"--that is, unless you think you know more than the manufacturers do! There are a lot of guys out there shooting Superposeds, A-5's, Double Autos etc, handed down to them by a father or grandfather, and they're not going to appreciate you tossing them and their guns on the rubbish heap with inaccurate information. But hey, you're not alone. The wizards on the Nontox Advisory Committee in Minnesota made exactly the same, wrongheaded statement in their paper. Expect people like me to oppose such nonsense--IN PRINT--until you guys are honest about the negatives of going all nontox, as well as the "advantages".

As for the lead shot ban on shooting ranges, I'm not for it either . . . but how can it possibly make sense to ban lead for upland hunting when it's hundreds of times more concentrated around shooting ranges? If there are going to be negative effects anywhere, it will be where the shot fall is more concentrated--which was one of the reasons for banning it for waterfowl, with a whole lot of lead being dumped in relatively concentrated areas around popular duck marshes.

I am glad to hear that the Ithaca/SKB guns should be able to take that volume of steel. When I was window shopping for my first shotgun, which I got for Christmas right after my 14th birthday, it was a 20 gauge Ithaca that stole my heart. I remember how much lighter and livelier it felt than what I got, even though the gun dad settled on was more versatile and probably a better choice. I don't know anyone in my family that had a double gun and perhaps it seemed obsolete compared to a Remington 870 and that is why it wasn't an option. The difference in price couldn't have been more than about $50. One of the things I remember about the gun was the bright raybar sight. Today that beacon would probably be the first thing I would want to change. Should one of those mid-70's SKBs be as capable of handling steel as a newer one, or is there a difference?

Skip

'Thank You' for putting it so bluntly, Larry...it needed done. All that any of us here in Montana are asking for is 'irrefutable' proof of any "study" sanctioned by Ben Deeble (aka Grouse Guy, i.e.BSUBA)IF this must happen. Chances of getting that seem markedly slim judging from the falsehoods and inaccuracies found within GG's resolution which has now opened a Pandora's box for traditional gunners in Montana. Quite a legacy for him, no matter which way it goes. GG was politely, if pointedly, asked some questions by several posters as to these inaccuracies, and we were told we could go "stew in our own spleen juices" because he was done with all of us on the board. Now he's back??!!

To the readers here, if you've not followed the previous thread of a few days ago entitled 'Lead Phase-out Proposed for Montana Uplands', I'd encourage you to do so as it is a real eye-opener as to how nefarious things can get when coming from an individual supposedly having NO agenda and just undertaking this action as "fundamentally an effort to immunize upland hunters against attacks by anti-hunting groups." I would have said coming from a 'group', but one of BSUBA's voting board members informs me that the first he heard of any formal action was in BSUBA's Summer newsletter, just like the rank-and-file did....and that he got to read the resolution for the first time right here on this very bbs. I WAS a BSUBA member up until this was dropped on us a couple of weeks ago, and a good many of us are upset that it was so internalized that the rank-and-file were clueless for some three months until recently published. I want to say right here that this is not a vendetta, nor have I anything personal against 'Grouse Guy', as I've known him to be a very personable and hard-working fellow over the years we've been acquainted. He truly believes in what he is doing, but I can't help but feel that there were a number of better ways to go about this than what was served up.


Robert Harris
Conner, MT

Robert Harris, sent you a PM

Dearest Robert:

Touche'

Imitation is the highest form of flattery, and you've certainly outdone yourself this time.

Regards,
GG