doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT Model 12 question

I know its not a double already, but I can't find the answer anywhere on the internet. I found an old Winchester Mdl 12 20 gauge with a solid rib and 25 inch barrel. I have never heard of one with this length. Before you ask, yes I measured it correctly. The solid rib tapers up to the end of the barrel which looks correct also. Full choke. Feel free to email me at brdslayr@clearwire.net to let me know your thoughts or facts so as not to tie up this fine site. Thanks JW

I think 25" was common on the M12 20 gauges. I'm definitely not a M12 expert, though.

the length's fine. and by tapers you mean height, right, and not width? the height would just about disappear at the tangency at the muzzle. what i always thought was a very attractive rib. the width may narrow as well. only solid rib M12's i've had were 12 ga skeet guns. i don't recall their getting narrower but both tapered in height from even with the top of the receiver sighting plane to just slightly above the barrel OD at the muzzle.

roger

"20 gauge Plain Barrels: 25" first listed in January 1913 discontinued in 1935;...." pg 106 Winchester Shotguns and Shotshells by R.W. Stadt.
PS. Same info for solid raised matted rib barrels.

Yes, when I mentioned the taper I did mean the height of the rib. Anyone got an idea of price? Worn gun but all there. Not much blue on the receiver, but barrel looks ok, stock is uncut with factory butt plate. Also, what will the chamber length be? I can't remember if it was marked 2 3/4 or not.

From ca. 1930 chamber should be 2&3/4. Those made before that date should have 2&1/2 chambers. The guy to ask about the price is my nemesis Ole' Cowboy aka Don Moody.

The first Mod 12s were actually the "Model of 1912" (check your barrel stamping to see if it's a "1912"). The very first 1912's were only 20 gauge and only 25" barrels; manufacturing started in 1912 (Duh!). All were 2-1/2" chambers to start, and were available with plain or solid ribbed barrels. The 12, 16, and 28 gauge guns followed later (some much later). My 20ga 1912 is a 1913 gun with 25" Full Choke barrel, solid rib, 2-1/2" chamber. Seems to digest 2-3/4" shells just fine; that is not always true with the short-chambered 16's. I also have a circa 1955 Mod 12in 20 gauge with a 25" plain barrel that shows no signs of having been shortened, also Full Choke; this is curious because the books say that Win did not make 25" barrels in that era, so could be a parts bin gun but numbers match.

These guns are pretty much unbreakable (except for firing pins), so if it's all there you should buy it. If there is little or no finish left, it's worth refinishing or restoring as a shooter because they are great handling guns. I paid $375 for mine about 6 years ago with no finish and good wood. I'm into it well over $1K now with new blueing and factory checkered wood, so I have probably spent too much on a pump gun. Not the first time, won't be the last. I like it.

Any of the other Model 12 gauges could be 25" if they were special ordered that way. So a 25" barrel is not that uncommon at all. I had a 16 gauge that length that was original with that length barrel.

Price is still a little high I think. Wants $600 for it. Don't know if there is any dicker room or not. We'll see. I'm pretty sure that they had written a date on the tag and that it was earlier than 1930. So if its supposed to have a 2.5in chamber and its been lengthened does it diminish its value?

i don't know that $600 would be that far out of line. crosnoe has - or had - a std field gun 20 for $550 that was not in the greatest shape. i ran across one i grabbed for my father at cabelas here for $299. they wouldn't budge a nickel and i didn't care. lots of stock wear, still has quite a bit of receiver blue, non-original pad on an uncut stock but the butt was flattened for the pad. the barrel on the one you're looking at will add quite a bit to the value. as far as i'm concerned i stole it. cheaper would be better of course. but it's not like you're passing up an 870 or mossberg; you're not going to go to 3 other gunshops and see 3 more of them today.

don't worry about tying up the board. there's plenty of electrons and if anybody doesn't like the topic - and can read - they don't have to even open the thread.

roger