Well, for heavens sake, don't anyone start talking positive and negative pitch. Jim is correct that a short-toed gun is going to stick its muzzles further from the wall than a short-heeled one if you go by the old up against the wall rule. I'm nearly sorry I even cheeped about pitch. A gunfitter told me that "most people are accomodated by 5 to 7 degrees positive pitch" which I take to mean that a very large angle taker-offer (long armed adjustable bevel or protractor against a strait edge with the strait edge on the rib and second arm or protractor against the butt) will generally give a reading of 83 to 85 degrees included angle between the two. I measured a bunch and sure enuf most of mine were about 4-5 degrees less than a right angle. May be some trapshooters who adopt the exaggerated bend to the front like Elmer Fudd and need a long toe to get contact up and down the "leaning" pocket, which is still consistent with what Jim says about full contact.
jack
