doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Smith & Wesson Double Guns

Geoff -- I do believe that Steven qualifies a LOT higher than hobbyist.

Tom, you'd need to understand the context of the comment in order to appreciate it.

Mr. Hughes feels that non-full time gunsmiths (some that are better craftsmen than he will ever be) are gutting his share of the pie and isn't shy about expressing that opinion both to the gunsmiths and publicly. He's also not shy about maligning these gunsmith's reputations.

He's earned the comment.

I'm looking forward to your article about the new S&W guns.

In the world I live in ideas are the only currency and my money on this one is with Recoil Bob.

It all ties together... In general people and companies and countries earn their reputations. And once people have formed an opinion it is very hard to change their mind. Doesn't matter if you are SDH or S&W or Turkey...

Geoff: You are right. I don't know the context. Must be some history here.

As to the S&W, Turkish guns, etc., subject, I'm not an expert in double guns. I'm a fan who owns a few. Started with a Fox from Stevens. Not very good. Then the Ithaca (SKB) "Quail Special" (20 gauge, 25-inch barrels, straight grip -- I can't hit a barn with it), an old L.C. Smith 20 gauge, Win. M21 skeet gun in 16 ga., another nondescript SKB, Lebeau sidelock, Grulla sidelock, J.P. Sauer boxlock, etc.

I'm still learning. I've hunted with the Ruger Gold Label and the Kimber Valier.

Now that I've shot the S&W guns, I think they are pretty exciting guns for the place in the market where they will land. Whether that translates to actual sales will be determined. I do know that the folks at Smith are committed to making good guns, and they are working hard at it.

I think (but don't know for sure) that these guns will be considerably higher in quality than the norm for Turkish guns. I think we will look back and see these as being in the class of the mid-level Spanish guns, which is pretty good.

But, as I say, we won't know until the guns arrive, a bunch are shot, and we see how they perform and how they stand up to a lot of shooting.

Having new doubles made in a new factory is pretty cool. Anyone who will be at the SHOT Show in Orlando should muscle their way into the booth to see and handle them.

A long time ago a very smart professor in grad school told us that the most important question any business should ask itself before embarking on a new venture is"What business are we in?"
In Smith and Wesson's case the answer is "the design and manufacture of handguns".
In the past when they have ventured out of their field of expertise (with rifle, shotguns, airguns,etc.), they have had mixed results.
I wish them well, but fear they are moving into a crowded field populated by companies such as Beretta and Browning that have years of experience with the shotgun market.

Dear Tom Gresham
Did you ask S&W where the prototypes were made? More than likely here in the good old USA! Why does a company the size of S&W want to go to Turkey and build a plant? What is wrong with building a plant in the USA and putting American workers back to work? As far as you saying that Turkey is not our enemy, they are almost all Muslims and hate anyone who is not. I would love to have a newly manufactured SxS that is high quality made in the USA.

Tell S&W I want a sidelock 3 inch chambers 32 inch barrels with English walnut, pistol grip stock, beaver tail forend, double triggers, two ivory beads (not plastic), no choke tubes, bored Full and Full. I would like the steel to be forged High carbon steel of the highest quality. Made in the USA.

You asked what we want, and the above is it.

American that is tired of having foreign junk shoved down my throat at a price that is unreasonable.

Tell S&W, NO TURKISH JUNK !!!!!!!!
M.L.

Sounds like a similar path...I still have my SKB 280 though like you I doubt I could hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with it any more, and I've owned a few American Classics that I have the same problem with.

I've tried the Gold Label without much success too...

What happens on these boards when a gun maker come out with a new SxS is that we wind up seeing the opinions of the very top of the shotgun buying public - knowledge wise.

S&W isn't really going after that part of the market they're going after the guy who's always kid of wanted a SxS but has choked at the $$$ it takes to get on board the train even at the entry level. Pushing $3K and up for an bottom feeder Spanish Boxlock is nuts...

S&W isn't going to satisfy the more finely tuned aesthetics of the dedicated SxS shooter with a $2,000 gun, and I really doubt that's what they are aiming for. They are trying to sow some more guns into a marketplace that's already saturated with O/Us and autoloaders and pumps.

They need to build a gun thaat the "average" guy trying to decide if he wants a new Browning/Beretta or that new SxS from S&W is going to have a hard time making a decision about.

It looks like they may have found that spot.

CSMC is making some pretty nice guns here in the US. They are only boxlocks and start about $14,000 http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index/Fox/Fox4.htm
Things didn't work out too well for the Ithaca SxS guys.
Not trying to be a smarta** but this would be economic reality and not likely to change anytime soon.

M.L. -- the pre-production (not prototype) guns I shot were made in the new factory in Turkey.

If you think it is impossible to make a good gun in Turkey, then nothing will change your mind.

But . . . I know junk. And these are not junk. They actually are quite nice. I'd post photos here, if I could figure out how.

No one is shoving anything down anywhere. You certainly are free to not buy, and you are even free to call a gun junk when you haven't seen it, much less shot it. Your perogative.

I'm looking forward to seeing a Grade II in 28 gauge. If I can get one with 28 or 29-inch barrels, two triggers (though this is not a deal-breaker for me), and a weight of about 6 pounds, I'm on board.

Would I prefer a sidelock? Probably, but in a slim action like this, with a nice rounded body, it's not a big deal for me.

I'll be talking about these guns on the radio show Sunday. Should be fun to hear what others think about them. The callers will weigh in, I'm sure.