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#116044 10/07/08 09:07 PM
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How about some examples of Mr Fewless' work and I do want to see some finished rifles by Mr Steele and more of Mr Hurst's engraving. Also I would like to see examples of any other modern or classic gunsmith that makes rifles appropriate to the forum. Also I dearly enjoy seeing pictures of the classic makers and want to see any decent pictures available. Don't hold back!

I'm also rather enjoying seeing the evolution of the modern, classic, bolt action from the early, very European appearing examples with the large drop at heel, small cheek pieces, schnables, and narrow forearms. It is fascinating.

Jerry Liles

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I'm not sure I agree with the "large drop at the heal". I have heard that many times and used to believe it, but I have a Lang double rifle that has so little drop it is almost impossible to shoot at 100 yds or less.


And I have an Evan's double shotgun that is also way way high. I finally bent that one and it is now quite shootable.

So, I don't really believe that the long drop is really European or British. At least not all of the time.

Brent


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The sporting rifle developed in Suhl, Germany came along long before the 1898 Mauser action and changed little until after 1940. This is a circa 1911 J.P. Sauer & Son 98 Mauser made in caliber 30-06. Which was many years before an American company offered a bolt gun in this caliber.





MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014




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In my experience many early breech-loading English guns (guns, not rifles) had little drop at the heel. I just sold an 1883-vintage Westley Richards hammerless BLNE with very, very little drop at heel, about 1.25" IIRC, and about the same pitch dimension. Also recently had a Blanch converted pinfire underlever with even less drop, it had actually had the comb lowered to permit a lower head position. The Blanch also had very little pitch and I know the pitch dimension was original since the gun had only heel & toe plates and had obviously not been altered. The Richards was a bespoke gun, made for a particular individual according to its factory letter, and the Blanch is a typical 'best quality' gun of the period and was possibly also a bespoke gun judging by the unique engraving on the initial plate. These are both fairly early guns but were still made about 20 years apart; I've had other English guns of the period and I believe that the typical drop dimensions gradually increased as time went on, until by the turn of the century many of them had begun looking like a dog's hind leg. JMOFWIW and I'm certainly no expert (G).
Regards, Joe


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Jerry, I may be in the minority, but my few prewar custom rifles, some built by known makers, some unidentified, are intelligently stocked and comfortable to shoot. They are also quite attractive and I wouldn't change much of anything if I were to contract for a custom rifle today. No, my rifles are not Owen or Griffin and Howe, but rifles from those makers also seem intelligently stocked and should be comfortable to shoot in most calibers. Prewar customs are generally intended for use with iron sights or iron sights and scope. A stock meant to be used for both iron sights and scope cannot be perfect for both. The drop at comb must be low enough for comfortable use of the iron sights, so it can't be perfect for scope use. Some, if not most, rifles made today are stocked high for scope use and the use of a Lyman 48 would be impossible without shaving the stock. I would have no use for a scope only rifle in general hunting use.

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I never said the rifles weren't "intelligently" stocked. The large drop at heel favored offhand shooting and the low line of sight of iron sights. this changed with accomidation for scope sights. Also the European styling of slender forearms such as seen in the Sauer above with the sideplates are present in Wundhamers early rifles. His later rifles look much more "American" with Owen and G&H rifles (and others) distinctly American. I believe there is a clearly evident rapid evolution of the custom stocked bolt action rifle that arrived at the classic American bolt action rifle stock in the 30's(which later mutated to the California horrors). I've been a bit curious why the European style evolved like it did and why it changed in America.

Jerry Liles

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Here's an old example of the things I like. I made this Mauser small ring 280 about 20 years ago in order to incorporate some of the cool furniture that my friends had accused me of 'hoarding'. You'll notice that there are three traps and somewhat of a mixture of European and US styles, both vintage and modern.

The traps contain cartridges, broken shell extractor, sub-caliber (22LR) insert with lead adaptor caps, spare front sight QC insert, QC peep that attaches to the rear base, a Lenard Brownell coiled speedometer-cable cleaning rod with jag, and space for the front sight hood when detached from its ramp. Yes it's overkill but the hoarding accusation had inspired me to go to excess. (G) The seven-panel, five-fleur checkering pattern is distictly Dale Goens' design and is the most complicated I've ever done; my more usual full wrap-around point patterns are almost child's play by comparison. The rifle also has a three-leaf express open rear with NECG front band ramp, Kimber QC lever rings, Grisel 3-position bolt sleeve, Kepplinger SST, Krieger barrel with special bore and twist, hinged floorplate and Hurst engraving. All screwheads are timed and the butt trap is lined with felt. The wood remains unstained; I usually use a little reddish stain nowadays for better display of the grain. I apologise for the poor quality pic, it's a digital camera's copy of an old 35mm print. I did all the work except the engraving.



My tastes and preferences have evolved over the last 20 years but I don't have any good pics of recent completed work. Nowadays my comb noses are much daintier and my PGs are more cleanly shaped, among other things.
Regards, Joe


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Gentlemens:

Well then, if you want evolution, there is no better place to begin than at the beginning... The Remington Rolling Block.

This one began its life as an early black powder military action. Engraving by Mr. Hurst. Color case and Carbona blue by Classic Guns in Crete, IL. Wood from Quaking Aspens and stockwork by owner.

Glenn
















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Nice Roller, but Glenn, you need to close the block before it will fire


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Originally Posted By: BrentD
Nice Roller, but Glenn, you need to close the block before it will fire


For God's sake Brent, don't start giving him tips, he may start winning competitions. Sorry Glenn, I couldn't resist that.. lol.

Harry


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