Ref your post on choke Stan, a couple of years ago I was at West london shooting school getting a lesson from a chap called Mickey Rouse (spelling might be dodgy), he is an ex european ZZ champion. We were on the high pheasant tower (120 feet) and I said to him my gun only had IC in each barrel. He then broke 8 out of 10 clays with it...from the hip !!! That was using 30 gram of no.7 if I remember. He agreed with Macintosh that with modern cartridges 95% of shotgunners would do as well or better with IC in both barrels. Please note I am not talking about long range goose shooting or other specialist jobs, best, Mike