doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT- Shooting deer with peashooters, humane?

We tend to be over regulated here in England but the Deer Act specifies a calibre not less than .240 and a muzzle energy of not less than 1700 ft. lbs. We can now use certain .22 centrefires with a minimum 50 grain bullet for the little Muntjac and Chinese Water Deer. Scotland has a slightly different formula but much in the same vein. In Britain deer stalking lies in the art of getting as close as possible to the deer and dropping it with one well placed shot. So far my longest shot at a Roe deer was 125 yards and I have never shot a Red or Sika over 100 yards. The last Sika was nearer 20 yards. Anyone useing a .22 rf. should be shot with one himself. Lagopus.....

It all sort of depends.

Do you shoot pheasants with a .410 or even a 28? Some would say the same about that.

Is it humane to shoot a deer with an arrow? Seems to me that would be the most painful and lengthy time to die.

Shooting animals with a bow and arrow is also illegal in the UK. I just offer that as an observation.

I suppose the rules dictating what cartridge is acceptable for deer hunting are geared toward the "average" hunter/marksman and really don't reflect what is possible when an expert marksman/stalker is involved.Many novice and/or inexperienced hunters get overly excited and lose their rationale when confronted by a chance to score a trophy and take shots that they should not have taken.I would imagine a .25 or .30 caliber,or larger,would make up somewhat for less than ideal bullet placement in these situations,more penetration,more damage and a better blood trail.I believe,for the unexcitable and expert shot,that a .22 rimfire would be perfect under some conditions,for getting the game. I also believe that using a .22 even for the expert would greatly limit the chance to score simply because an "expert" is not going to take shots where wounding and losing the game is a possibility.That 10 point buck you just wounded and ran off to die in the neighbors woodlot has a good chance of being claimed by someone else in these days of trophy fever that seems rampant among those not steeped in the tradition and ethics of hunting.

I note the ME of the standard loading of the 405 grain .45-70 is only 1570 Ft-Lps. I find it hard to fathom that not being considered an adequate load for a deer. I also recall some years back a Deer head being bought at a yard sale which turned out to be a new Record. It was eventually awarded to an older gentleman who had claimed it (awarded post-humeously) who had shot it in the early 1900's with either a .32-20 or .25-20 (I saw conflicting reports on this), neither of which we consider today to be totally adequate deer calibers.

Jim, ethical bowhunters are like ethical gun hunters. I well placed arrow,IMHO, can be every bit as humane as a well placed bullet. Unfortunately, there is no way to regulate the ethics of people. Like the guy who doesn't use enough gun or the guy who does use enough gun, but shoots past his capable range. I have been a bowhunter for over 30yrs. and I have become sickened by the whooping and hollaring of deer drives and the attitude, if "I can see'em, I am shooting at them". How in the heck can you place a bullet with a hunting attitude like that. How about all of the pickup trucks that circle a section and declare, anything that flies..dies. Or if it is brown, it is down. Of course we also have the hunters that buy a muzzleloader, shotgun, rifle, bow or crossbow on Fri. night, shoot a paper plate in the backyard and declare themselves ready to go hunting. Than loan the thing to a friend who doesn't even practice, but is in the woods anyhow, bragging the next day that they hit a deer, but since it didn't fall right away, it will be ok because it was "only" a doe. These idiots, think they are some kind of macho man, by hitting a deer, it doesn't matter that they were unable to tag it. Sometimes our very worse nightmare, is those who declare themselves "sportsman". You know, you just can't fix stupid. Even the very best of true sportsman, will blow a shot. At least though the real sportsman will take responsiblity for their sport by practicing, using the right amount of tools and becoming proficient in their tracking/game skills.

Historically, far more deer and other game has been taken with bow and arrow or flintlock rifle than any modern caliber.

The difference is, in those day the sloppy hunter starved and was eliminated from the gene pool.

Am I right in understanding that the UK also prohibits the pursuit of animals with dogs? Is that just fox hunting or is beagling for rabbits also prohibited? What about terriers for vermin? I trust it's still OK to use bird dogs for pointing and retrievers for picking up. My question is not meant as criticism, I just don't quite understand the rationalization of such rules...Geo

Is it humane to shoot a deer with an arrow? Seems to me that would be the most painful and lengthy time to die.

Jim,
I don't hunt deer or other large mammals, just birds and now to do that I have to buy them. But, a very good friend of mine shoots more deer in N.J. in one season than most people get in a life time and he uses a bow. His shots are no farther than 20 yards and he tells me that most of the time the deer flinch or sometimes run a short distance and die. I've heard that being hit by an arrow is like a bee sting. If your shot is placed well and 99% of the time his are, the deer go a very short distance and die. Best shot is a double lung and then the heart.
Before anyone gets to upset on all his deer kill, he has permission to kill deer in a private park that is the middle of a large town. The deer filter in there and eat the landowners shrubs and plants. There is a waiting list for the meat, and in one call someone is there to pick it up.
The Park commision wants mostly does shot and once in a while he will get a nice buck. There are only 4 hunters allowed and I beleive it is 12 sq. miles. The hunters were told that if they didn't reach the Parks quota, that professional hunters would be brought in at $300 a deer.

There are many hunters out there who use a bow, shotgun and rifle that shouldn't be out there because they don't know the first thing about their weapon and how it shoots.