doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com muzzle loading bullets

I am interested in some information on the muzzle loaded bullet ala Pope or one of the others great smiths of the era, what are the different in the bullet from the breach loaded bullet and the muzzle loaded bullet and what are the theory why there this slight difference in the design, does anyone have a drawing and or a picture of such a bullet, maybe someone actually have one mold to cast a few bullets......

The reason for this is that I have build a low wall in 32-40 with a false muzzle ala Pope on a Krieger barrel for BP shooting only and now I want to have Paul Jones to make me a mold for the muzzle loaded bullet, and my next project is a 33-47 where I also want to do some experiment with a false muzzle.

Paul Jones did not have any previously experience with muzzle loaded bullets but if I could get a previously made design he would cut a cherry and make moulds for both calibers.

I have previously got a lot of good advices on the 32-40 projects from some of the now banned members on another forum, maybe they can help again.

Michael

Michael,

Your getting into a very technical area of cast bullet shooting and there are no easy answers. My first question to you would be what is the diameter of the groove and bore on your rifle? How did you make the false-muzzle? I ask this question because traditionally the false-muzzle is made before the barrel is rifled. The rifling is then cut in the false-muzzle at the same time as the barrel.

A VERY good gunsmith can make a false muzzle after the barrel is rifled, but it's rarely done because it takes so much work to line up the rifling exactly, and then pin it to the barrel.
I had a false muzzle built for a Ballard that was missing this part by the late Jim Wolford, and Jim's work was so good you couldn't tell it was made later.

If you would like to read Pope's description of his muzzle loading system and see some pictures of his bullets go to Google Search Books and look up "The American Rifle" by Townsend Whelen. On pp 418 he begins a discussion of the system. The entire book can be downloaded and it's well worth it. The bullets seem to be cylindrical with a blunt nose and multiple lube grooves and of groove diameter cast of relatively soft lead tin alloy. Hoch can likely supply you with copies of the Pope bullets.

Jerry Liles

There are a number of different ways to approach the problem of a false muzzle. Undoubtedly the best way is to cut the undrilled barrel blank, reface the ends of the cut and rejoin them with the alignment pins, and then proceed to drill and ream and rifle the barrel.

The easiest way today is to take a finished blank, put in the holes for the alignment pins, and then cut the barrel with a wire EDM. The kerf can be so narrow (.010" or less) that they alignment of the rifling is not affected to any significant degree.

A false muzzle can be made for an existing barrel, but to my knowledge they are usually smooth bore muzzles at groove diameter, and the engraving of the rifling takes place in the barrel itself. As I understand it some of the false muzzles were really just intended to be an aid for applying a cross patch and to protect the barrel muzzle while loading, and these were not rifled.

It would be interesting to learn more about the evolution of the false muzzle from it beginnings with muzzle loading target rifles through the muzzle loaded cartridge rifles and finally becoming obsolete with the availability of quality smokeless powder.

Glenn

Well, not that I have tried, this but the other way to make a FM out of an existing barrel is to cast a slug in the barrel, then cut the barrel on a lathe w/o removing the slug. Slide FM back on the slug to face with the barrel and pin in place.

I can find no evidence that a FM barrel will out perform a breach seated barrel. Or even a nonFM muzzleloader. But nonetheless, I have a false muzzle gun under construction and it just might be ready to shoot in the spring.

My barrel was made by Bobby Hoyt using the preferred drill, cut, pin, ream and rifle procedure.

Brent

I think the false muzzle barrels had their day during the black powder era and proved less advantageous with smokeless. At least that's my impression.

Jerry Liles

Post deleted by Michael Petrov

This is where it all started,

http://www.google.com/patents?id=UQJAAAA...+muzzle#PPP1,M1

greetings iisj,

a bullet used for muzzle loading is the same as used for breech seating. the bullet is inter changeable.. howsomever, it is advizable to have a 'GOOD' bullet starter to go go along with the fm. or you will work your behind off and the results will be disappointing..

..ttfn..grampa..