doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com L.C. Smith quality ?

I began my gun writing career in the Winter 1994 issue of the DGJ with an article entitled "Supply Side Economics," which was a survey of Parkers for sale in DGJ ads since the first issue in 1989. The article was strictly Parker-centric using what was then the best source for fine double guns. With the advent of the Internet there was a shift away from print media, where the dealers listed their wares in two-page ads in the DGJ (and mailed the list to customers); now the dealers place smaller generic reference ads directing customers to their websites.

I did a survey of all double-gun-related websites (auctions and dealers) on October 10, 2003, and, again, this was Parker-centric, simply an extension of "Supply Side Economics," to arrive at a statistical profile of Parkers for sale in the new current best market. Then I hit pay dirt...

In 2005 I ran across Roy Eckrose's "Unofficial Auction Price Summary for 2004," which was (and I think still is) published on this very website. Roy had generated the raw data on over 3,600 gun auctions with prices ranging from $25 to $200,000; I listed all the American-made better-quality shotguns, crunched Roy's numbers, and came up with the following:

There are 104 Parkers of all grades and conditions on his 2004 summary, priced from $250 to $31,635, and averaging $4,382, with 54% selling above $2,000.

There are 47 Fox guns which average $2,361 with 19% above $2,000; the high selling Fox was $34,000 compared to $31,625 for the high selling Parker. Then the prices for fine American-made guns head south...

The 101 L. C. Smiths averaged $1,274 with 15% above $2,000. As a point of reference, 15 Parker Trojans averaged $1,333 with 13% above $2,000.

Ithaca had 49 guns averaging $646 with only 2 guns (4%) above $2,000; the 63 Ithaca/Lefever Nitro Specials averaged $477.

Lefever Arms Co. had 45 guns averaging $777; D. M. Lefever & Sons had 3 guns at an average of $2,323 with one above $2,000.

Colt had 15 guns averaging $2,061 with 3 above $2,000.

Remington had 10 guns averaging $767 with one above $2,000.

Roy Eckrose generated the raw data, I did the arithmetic, and the year was 2004. If I had selected 2005, the James Julia auction of about 130 of Jim Parker's Parkers would have bent the Parker cuve even higher. I just received the price list from Julia's October 2008 auction, and using this data, the Fox's price analysis could be enhanced. Auction prices ebb and flow, but I think the averages I stated above (and in Chapter 4--"What Are Your Chances?"--of my new book, Parker Guns: Shooting Flying...) fairly represent what we all know in our heart of hearts to be the day-in, day-out sales results, on the average, in the market place. Lake Erie averages four feet deep; Don't drown in the averages.

In the final analysis, the two most important questions upon consideration of acquiring a fine double gun are: (1) Where can I suit my purpose with good value for my money? and (2) How easy will it be to get back my money if and when I want to sell? An active collectors' group can be the key.

The PGCA has roughly 1,000 members; When I asked about the LCS member count at the LCS booth at Sanford NC and later on the LCS website, no one could (or would) tell me. The PGCA publishes an annual Roster to facilitate networking among members. I joined the LCSCA last year and received no Roster. I am aware that the Fox collectors are gathering steam, but have no information; as to Lefever collectors, likewise, no info.

When it's all said and done, Willie Sutton's sage advice comes to mind. He was, you may recall, a famous bank robber of the early 20th century. The world's dumbest journalist asked the stupidist question: "Why do you rob banks""

Willie replied, "...'cause that's where there money is."

Currently the smart money is in the better kind of fine guns. Had you bought the Dow about a year ago at 14,000 you would be on the sea-saw going back and forth from 7,700 to 8,700 in recent weeks. Meanwhile a Parker or LCS or Fox or Lefever or Ithaca that you managed to buy without getting ripped would have proved itself a better store of wealth. I'm not suggesting that people invest for retirement in fine shotguns, but there is a personal satisfaction in having a better sort of anything tangible, be it a Labrador Retriever, double-barrel shotgun, even a wife. EDM

The affordable lower grade ones have tendency toward wood cracking under and behind plates and the ones with higher grade wood and engraving that don't are just too darn expensive. I like their looks and finish, but prefer A.H. Fox guns because they don't have issue I stated above.
PS. The fit and finish on even field grade guns from the 50s was very good.

David....i agree with you! Very nice no matter the name.

Not to belabor the point, but Lefever having 45 guns averaging only $777? The only Lefevers available in that range are lower grade 12's, which must have brought the average down. $1200-$3500 is a more accurate range for higher condition examples, not to mention the $35k Optimus grades that have been available recently.

More on topic, LC Smiths can be as beautiful as any of the classics, but in the [more common] well used field grades lack the grace of the others mentioned IMHO.

On the issue of the Smith SST giving a lot of problems i have never seen this mentioned. LC Smith made probably twice or three times more single selective triggers than the other American makers.So would there not be more reported problems? Bobby