doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Poll-Damascus and modern ammo?

The Sherman Bell guns were exposed to pressures of 30,000 psi which is 4 times more than the usual damascus load of 7000 psi. Even the 850 bar proof of the English 2 1/2 round is just around 12,000 psi, way below the destruction level.
Would you feel safe shooting 850 bar rounds in a 850 bar proved gun?

I shoot 2 1/2" low-pressure loads in my Damascus Parkers most of the time but I will not hesitate to shoot anything BUT magnum and steel without the slightest concern. My major interest in shooting low-pressure loads is not because of the Damascus barrels but in the probability of subjecting the rest of the gun to any more stress than it deserves after more than a hundred years of hard service, e.g., hinge area, wood at the head of the stock and around the top and bottom tangs, etc.

I shoot a lot of the B&P 2000 1 oz loads. They show from their web site to be about 6500psi and seem to be perfect for our guns..

It's not about whether or not damascus is weaker or stronger than any other barrel materials.

It's about the probability of a catastrophic failure of a barrel that could be hazardous. That would include consideration of the margin of safety above the working pressures of the loads used. It would also include the probability of firing an unintended high pressure load exceeding the ultimate strength of the barrel. It would also include the probability of firing with an obstruction in the barrel.

It seems to me the real issue is more about the probability of a obstruction than any other issue.

William Greener tested some bars of various damascus metal by pulling them till they broke (Prior to wrapping into a bbl). The better grades showed tensile strengths of 60-76K psi. Some cheap bbls which contained no steel showed only 40K or less. This was 1834, no doubt these cheaper bbls fell by the way side & bbls were likely produced which had even higher strength than the Best of '34. By way of camparsion Wrought Iron has a strength of about 48K, Low Carbon open hearth steel about 56K while a piece of plain carbon 1035 steel will show from 83 to 96k depending upon its temper (1300°F to 800°F). More modern 4140 alloy steel (A common steel for gun bbls) starts at 110K at a temper of 1300°F up to 180K at 800°F. These are the tempertures to which the steel is tempered or drawn after heat treating. There is no question modern alloy steels used in todays guns exceed the strength of the vintage gun bbls whether steel or Damascus. Plain carbon steel having a carbon content greater than about 40-45 points was not really suitable for gun bbls so most early steel bbls are not really stronger than good damascus/twist bbls. By the time the breech loaders became commonplace most of the really poor damascus had been done away with. In speaking of a CA 1900 vintage Parker, Smith, Lefever, ETAL I think it really matters little which type bbl it has.

Posted this when it happened. Beautiful conditioned Baker. Had the gun less than an hour of pickup at the FFL. I shot 8 shots, brother got to the 11th and it went. I think he broke the claybird. Found the wad( torn up) out in the yard with the rest of them. All OK, both peppered pretty good. Load was RemSTS,Clays,Windjammer,1oz.,PSI 5800, PW press. No more comments on 20ga. up the tube. Gun blew on the mentioned load. No need to rehash the who/what done it. Brother and I continue to shoot vintage SXS's and most are damascus.Randy

Randy,
Just curious...what was the measured wall thickness on your poor Baker? What was the condition of the bores? Was anybody hurt when she gave way?

Fortunately no one hurt, just peppered with steel pieces. Drew a little blood is all. No tools to measure wall thickness. Gun was in remarkable condition. Beautiful bores. Choked F/F as I remember. Posting may still be in the bone pile of BBS, maybe a couple years by now. Randy

Well, thats great no one was seriously hurt. Did you ever think to send the barrels off to have the walls measured? Maybe the bores were beautiful cause they might have been honed and polished at one time during its life? Very curious. I use almost the same load you use when I shoot my Damascus guns, I almost exclusively use IMR 800x for my loads, they are so mild I cant see them blowing up a cardboard wrapping paper tube.

Again, glad to hear no one was injured.

Dustin

I believe this was a pic Randy sent me of the shell.