doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com American vs. English "frequent shooters"

In proof or out of proof are determined with a wall thickness gauge, not stamps in the barrel flats. This goes for American guns or English guns equally.

If you use the proper loads these old gun with last several lifetimes if given any proper care. Cleaning, not an excessive amount of oiling, yearly attention to the needs of the stock finish, ect.... Then the only thing that you have to worry aobut is the uncontroled breakage. We all have seen new guns break and these old guns can do likewise. As long as there is a need to repair them someone will be able to do it for me.

But a few cases of Wallyworlds super fast loads and you can measure the gun life in inches instead of miles.

I own and shoot both. I can't tell a wit of difference between either. I had a top lever spring break on a Wm. Ford and my "stuck in the backwaters" smith made a spring for it. He could have done the same thing for a Fox or a Parker. A good smith can build any non-metal part you need.

The trick is finding a servicable gun with the right stock dimensions, Brit, Spanish, American or what have you. The savings will be in not having to re-stock the gun. That could be as much as the original cost of the gun.

Jim

It's a question of the particular gun, not the country it was made in.

If you are going to shoot it a lot, get a heavier gun with a Greener crossbolt or other true third fastener (and I don't consider a passive doll's head to be a real fastener). Nitro proof, steel bbls, 2 3/4" original chambers. Check wall thickness at end of chamber and near muzzle. Boxlocks tend to have fewer stock head problems and they are less finicky, mechanically. There are lots of German guns with GCBs that are of very high quality and will take a pounding, so don't forget those.

Now if it were me, of the American "working" guns, I would get a Remington 1894 or 1900 circa $500. Almost indestructible, dead-ringer for an English A&D action, stout bbls with a third fastener and amazingly cheap, even with ejectors. I wouldn't get a Parker, the stocks split if you shoot more than two boxes of ammo through them. Same with LCs. Of the German guns, I would go with a Sauer Royal circa $1000-1500 or even the plainer one around $750. Of the English guns, you can't go wrong with WWG around $1500-2000 for a good one. Or a plain WR around $2K.

Proof . . . although wall thickness is a critical measurement, there is no set standard that automatically renders a gun out of proof due to thin walls. Think I do recall reading that the proof house wouldn't accept guns with something less than .018, and the British gun trade recommends thicker walls than that. But personally, I'd shy away from a 2 1/2" gun with MWT under .025, probably .030 if it's 2 3/4".

What you can spot from the barrel flats, and with bore and chamber gauges, is whether the gun is out of proof due to lengthened chambers (which may or may not be a problem as far as the gun being a "shooter" goes) or the bore being more than .010" over the standard for that particular gauge--but that really isn't a problem either, as long as there's sufficient wall thickness, even though it does automatically render the gun out of proof.

Agree with most of the posters above. I've shot several Brit game guns a lot on targets, using 7/8 oz reloads in 2 3/4" hulls, loaded well within appropriate pressure standards. Not any more problems with the Brit guns than with European or American guns of similar vintage.

doublegunhq, how on earth did you arrive at this statement:

"I wouldn't get a Parker, the stocks split if you shoot more than two boxes of ammo through them."

I have more than a dozen Parkers that have had tens of thousands of rounds of all descriptions through them over the past 100 years and not a one shows the least sign of cracking. Those Parkers I've seen that are split at the head seem to be more the result of a side blow from a fall than shooting. Basically the same for a Smith, though they do tend to crack behind the lockplate. But American guns were generally subjected to much more physical abuse than the English pieces. Not really a fair comparison.

Silvers: Stay with AH Fox. For a vintage sporting clays gun that you intend to shoot a lot find a nice AE with 30 or 32 inch barrels. Many of the longer barreled guns were # 2 or #3 weight. The gun should weight around 7 3/4 to 8lbs. Find a gun that has good condition but has little collector value/interest because it has had some restoration. Have a good stock man go over the wood to make sure it is sound and repair the head area as or if needed. Have the stock bent (the straight gain of an A should bend easily). Add LOP with a recoil pad. Have the chambers lenghtened, chokes modified. A #2 frame Parker VH would also be an excellent choice.