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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 803 |
swamprat, please send pictures to model21shotgun@yahoo.com . Please list all specifications including weight and actual constrictions if you have measured them. I will include on my website.
I recently sold my 32" M21 'Duck'. They are great guns for 50yd shots on geese with Kent TM #1 if choked FULL/FULL.
Your 16 gauge 3" is the interesting one because I have not encountered one before. Thanks for the information.-Dick
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,232
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,232 |
I've got three or four 3 inch 16 gauge shells in my collection. At least two are Selby loaded in US Cartridge Company cases and I know one is a Peters. All are really early shells and all came out of California. Never seen or heard of a box but I'm sure they exist as these came out of one. The only spare I ever had went to an LC Smith collector who had a Smith gun with that factory chambering. All the feed store experts at his gun club told him they never made such a thing.
Destry
Out there at the crossroads molding the devil's bullets. - Tom Waits
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 432
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 432 |
Destry, I'm the one you got that reload for. I've since obtained two more factory loads from the same guy in California---one is a Peters and the other an Ajax. There's a discussion on 16 ga. 3" guns going on over at the 16 GA site right now.
See you at Sanford in April---I'll probably bring the gun and shells.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
Here's a box of 24 rounds....   You'll note that 3" didn't necessarily mean a heavy load originally. In the days before the plastic shot cup there was a lot of experimentation to improve patterning, including different wads/wad heights. These 16's are only 2 9/16, but note the 12ga Deluxe Target was a 3" shell... 
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,907 Likes: 113
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,907 Likes: 113 |
Great find Mike. Got an age on that box of 3-inch 16-gauge Leaders? It is from before Winchester's Staynless primers, so I'm guessing pre-1930?
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
Sorry, Researcher, I don't know. I'll defer to you.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,211 Likes: 224 |
Mike, the Deluxe Target 3" 12 gauge is not a target load. I have some of those and, as I remember, they are 1 5/8 ounce duck and goose loads. The Deluxe Target 16 gauge 3" are some kind of neat. I will trade any of my Deluxe Target mag 12s for similar 3" 16s. Wait a minute, Mike, your Deluxe Target 12 gauge are advertising copy. I thought they were actual boxes of shells. Maybe mine are rarer than I thought.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
Bill, After actually looking at the flyer, I see you're right. Since my introduction to the Deluxe Target loading was a box of 16ga, 1 ounce #7 shot, I didn't question the intended purpose. But I see from the flyer that the 3" 12ga was a real handful: 4 DE, 1 3/8 oz. Even the 2 3/4" version was a 3 3/4 DE, 1 1/4 oz thumper. Also, the text states it was "popular everywhere with duck hunters."  Nothing confusing about calling a "Long Range" hunting load "Deluxe Target", eh? Also, the Victor Skeet was 2 5/8" while the Victor Trap load was 2 3/4"...makes sense (?).
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Boxlock
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Boxlock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6 |
MarketHunter.......I have a 16ga. LC Smith Eagle grade chambered for 3".
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,907 Likes: 113
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,907 Likes: 113 |
Yeah. Bill is on target. The Peters "Lacquered DeLuxe Target" 12-gauge 3-inch was offered with 4 drams equiv. and 1 3/8 ounces of shot and 4 1/4 drams equiv. and 1 5/8 ounces of shot in the 1939 Stoeger. By the 1941 Stoegers the "DeLuxe Target" offereings no longer included long shells.
I don't have much in the way of Peters literature, so one is always taking a chance going by what is in Stoegers. However, from looking at the Stoergers I have, it appears that the "DeLuxe Target" was being eased out and the "High Velocity" was taking its place as Peters premier shell during the latter half of the 1930s.
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