doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dilling Caliber 9.3X72R???

All this work for nearly extinct antiquated cartridge generating 180MPa of pressure and about 2400J of energy at the muzzle?

That's more than adequate. All you need is a sharp piece of flint, a stick and a good throwing arm. It's all in the chase of the quarry, learning its habits. If you have a vintage car it require items which you can't purchase off the shelf like octane booster, zinc as an oil additive, etc. i.e., you have to know its needs. The chase/hunt with a vintage pressure device recreates the overall true essence giving a better appreciation instead of running to the store and purchasing the newest XXX WSM rifle and cartridge having little knowledge of how it functions except for when I pull the trigger the rifle fires.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ok, it does make some sense. It's sort of like driving Mod. T wearing "flat Irish hat" and looong silk scarf.

Actually it began as the 0.30 WCF - 30/30 for the 1894 repeater loaded with 30 grains of black powder. But the powder and jacketed bullets didn't GEE, HAW so smokeless/semi-smokeless soon followed. So if I had an older drilling with that calibre, I would use black or find an equivalent pressure.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yeah, you'd look like Fred Sanford in his WWI Manfred von Richthofen suit driving his truck.

By the way, send all those extinct, antiquated, unwanted longarms my way. I'll give them a good home.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The .30WCF/.30-30 case of course has more internal capacity than the .32-40 case. I would find it extremely doubtful it was ever loaded originally as a Black Powder round, if so it would have held more than 30grs powder. Everything I have ever read regarding it was that it was in fact the first non-military round "Introduced" as a Smokeless Powder round using 30grs Smokeless. As I understand it the mod 1894 action was actually designed for it, but it was not in the original release, due to further development of the "Smokeless Powder Steel" for the bbls being necessary so it originated chambering the .38-55 & .32-40. This Black Powder thing is often seen, but is as best as I can determine simply incorrect & based entirely upon the common designation of .30-30 resembling that of earlier BP rounds. As already stated though, this was not the original designation of the cartridge, it being the .30WCF.
There is evidence that some users attempted re-loading it with BP, without good results & Winchester brought out the .32WS as a dual purpose round which could be used with factory smokeless loads for a power level similar to the .30WCF or it could be re-loaded with BP for a similar level to the older .32-40, holding a little more powder, but not enough to make a really significant difference. The slightly larger bore & slower rifling twist made this more viable than with the .30.

Doesn't really matter if the cartridge is old technology. It killed deer just fine 100 years ago and the deer haven't been redesigned so it will do just as well today. Hunters are a different story. Many of them have allowed themselves to devolve into physically challenged stump sitters who don't know the animals or the woods and can't stalk well enough to get close for a shot unless it is over a corn feeder in a high fenced area. Eventually they will blend in with the other fungus on the stump and leave hunting to those who work on learning how. Meanwhile they keep trying to resolve their handicap by employing ever increasing numbers of technological crutches. Sad indeed - akin to playing golf from a cart with a mechanical device to swing the club for you.

Let me clairfy by saying the original intent was for black powder. Maybe the headstamp of 30-30S should have been propagated but it doesn't seem to make sense regarding the black powder notation of "30-30" unless it's beginnings were with black powder. I've read text similar to what is posted regarding the smokeless cartridge by Frank C. Barnes and have seen similar sites akin to: http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm . But I consider "The Old Master" Harry M. Pope to have been the authority on barrels, cartridges and loads. In his Treatise on Handloading from 1937, Philip B. Sharpe dedicated his text to "The Old Master" and I'm sure used or gained info from "The Old Master". Both of the aforementioned folk lived in a time much closer to the time of the origins of the cartridge and I for one think them to be more accurate than current texts. And it is here that notes the 30/30 having black powder origins.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Jerry, so true!!

There is a huge difference between Hunting and shooting.

JC

I note from the writings of Philip B Sharpe in "The Rifle in America" page 232;
"In 1894 Winchester put on the market an entirely new action in their famous model 1894. The Reason for it's great effect on shooting was because it was the first rifle "Designed" to handle cartridges loaded with the then new Smokeless Powder. All guns prior to this had been made for black-powder cartridges and only adapted to smokeless as the smokeless numbers came out. The model 1894 was first designed to handle the .30/30, .38/55 and .32/40 cartridges. Of these nunbers, of course the .30/30 was the "Only Brand-New All Smokeless Number". both the .32/40 and .38/55 were black powder varieties. The .38/55 smokeless cartridge was announced July 6, 1895"
"In 1895 Winchester also introduced two new "All-Smokeless" numbers, the famous .32 Winchester Special and the .25/35 Winchester".
This was what Phil Sharpe thought about the origin of the .30WCF (.30/30). It is also noted the US Goverment introduced a .30 caliber "Smokeless Powder" cartridge for the Krag rifle which became known in sporting circles as the .30/40 Krag. This likewise did not derive from a charge of 40 grains of black powder. It would therefore seem we have the .25/35, .30/30 & .30/40 all with "Black Powder Sounding" nomenclature which were all originally designed as smokeless powder rounds. If in fact you have any evidence a factory loaded black powder .30WCF aka .30/30 cartridge was ever placed upon the market I would love to see it. There had been I believe a small cased, low powered cartridge on the market which indeed was a BP .30/30, but I don't recall off hand who made it. It in no way resembled the .30WCF however.
PS; Of course as already mentioned the round was developed by Winchester & they did not apply the /30 to it. The .30/30 designation was first used apparently by Marlin & started out as .30/30S (S = smokeless??), probably because they did not want to stamp "WCF" on their gun. There would thus seem to be no evidence the /30 ever referred to BP.