doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Flame or Torch case coloring?

Ed1,

Your last response was rude and sophomoric. Do you think you have to belittle a man to make your point.

I think you've stuck around here long enough. You can leave now because you will never have any credability here.

Shoot straight,

Bird

jack: keep in mind, old ed aint rehardening nor is he retempering the receiver. that was already done at the factory by someone who knew the factory spec. all he is doin is recoloring it. some like his color work, others dont. that is one of the great things about this country...the freedom to like what you like or not like as you may choose...LIVE FREE OR DIE! ed1

I have been watching these threads about torch coloring with humor. I have over 30 years experience in research at a large steel company's research and development center. I helped Don Menk get his case coloring perfected using a scanning electron microscope. If color case hardening is done at the critical temperature (around 1350 degrees F) I would have no problem in using the rifle or shotgun afterwards. I collect English double rifles and have had a number of them done by Color Case Company, Doug Turnbull, and St. Ledger in England. All of them look and work just fine. I question the statement that Ed Lander's work is low temperature when using a torch. Ed1 says that the guys doing regular color case hardening are praticing a "black art". They monitor their temperatures very accurately.I would say that the REAL black art is somebody taking a torch to a piece of metal and not having a way to monitor temperatures at the surface. My conversations with Oscar Gaddy convinced me that his methods were scientifically sound, and not a "black art". Ed, go ahead and sell your guns to people who don't know any better. I would never buy one of them and I hope that you never destroy a Holland & Holland or Purdey with your hideous coloring scheme. If you are going to do something DO IT RIGHT, not applying carnival colors just to make a sale.

It seems to me that ED 1 has shown considerable gumption to sign up on this forum and confront the criticism we've been heaping on his wares for so long. I don't know whether he or his alter ego Ed Landers is actually blow-torching the colors on his guns or if he is being completely truthful in saying that the colors are a product of chemicals and low heat application, but I don't understand the anger exhibited by most of the posters here in essentially calling him a lier.

The chemical and low heat method of "faking" case colors was even reccomended, I believe, by Ithaca for the Perrazis they were selling at one time. If thats what Ed says he's doing, what evidence do we have that it is not so? Does anyone have one of his guns that has actually been ruined by whatever process he uses?...Geo

bird: i aint tryin to be little no one...however, i have found that sometimes when you state something in plain english, some people just do not comprehend it. i have found that, if sometimes you restate it in dialect, that it sometimes causes some people to sometimes slow down and by doing so, sometimes they have a better opportunity to comprehend what they are reading, sometimes...have you ever read uncle remus? ed1

I'm not taking sides in this ancient grievance. It's not reticence about displaying my ignorance. I decided after counsel from distinguished gunmaker and gunsmith not to risk case-colouring my mint 1925 Sterlingworth during its consummately skilled renovation from six months in six fathoms of salt water. Cost didn't enter it. I am a risk-taker. Doing right by the gun means more to me than fidelity. I bought the 12gauge through kindness of a member here who had Mike Orlen open the barrels to IC/M; it pleases me in the blind. It will probably be blued.

ld1: colorin rifle receivers, pistol frames and shotgun receivers aint the same thing. what works for one does not necessarily work for the others...i am happy for you that you have had high heat bone charcoal work done and have had no problems. however, that aint necessarily so in many other instances. one that comes to mind is a parker dhe receiver that i saw years ago. it looked really nice, except for the hair line crack at the right angle of the receiver face where it met the water table. according to old ed, this crack occured upon firing of the gun and was probably caused by heating the receiver to a high temperature and then not tempering the metal back enough to provide some elasticity... it really looked nice though. too bad the gun was no longer a safe shooter... ed1

LD1, hope you don't mind. I sent you an email.

Pete

ED1:
I expect we have a knowledgeable member or two on this forum who are located in your area. Here's an opportunity to prove your point. Why don't you have them come over to your shop and you can show them first hand just how you do low temperature case coloring? That should settle this matter once and for all.
Jim

jim: you are proof of my point about the necessity of sometimes using dialect as a means of improving ones reading comprehension... ah don do no gonsmithin myself...hit his awl don by utters... by the way, my shop is on the internet. see gunsamerica.com... email me privately if you have any questions regarding the items i have listed on that fine web site. ed1