doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Making offers on guns, trying to understand

John: If a guy won't give you an offer he is often just kicking tires and not serious. Or, he may not be up on the market trends for that particular gun, and not want to commit until he does further research. If its a gun I need, I look for at least 20% off what I believe is the average retail price. If its a gun I like but don't really need, I look for 30-40% off retail. If its a gun I don't particularly want, but others might, I will buy it at 50% off retail just to flip it to somebody else at 20% off. As you can tell, I don't often buy from established dealers. There is always the exception. I bought a nice Parker C grade from Bass Pro Shops for about 50% of what I figured was average retail. The just hadn't done their homework, although I bet they bought it right from an owner who had no clue as to value. I admired it, shot it, and decided I really didn't need it. I flipped it on Gunbroker a year later for 30% more than I paid for it, rather than sitting on it looking for full value. Now I can say I owned a high condition, original CHE, and made a reasonable profit on the deal. The midwest dealer who bought it from me will no doubt hold it for several years waiting to get full price for it. They all reach full retail price eventually. Just not on my watch. FWIW.

I am a dealer ,and have been selling guns for over 20 years.My take on buyers make offers is its almost an art.You have to know how to do it the right way.The first thing is get to know the dealer.Visit him on a regular basics and get to know him.Then when its time he will be much more excepting of your offer if he likes you.
The next step is to know what it is you are buying,and know what a good price is.That way when you are ready to make the offer you know your stuff.If the asking price is a good and fair price pay it.(it want last long)If its high then take a minute to think it over and then make our offer.but don't be one that talks the gun down.I hate to hear a guy dogging the item out and then still wanting to buy it.If its that bad you wouldn't want it.Also make a fair offer.Nothing turns a seller off more than a ridiculous offer.(example: say i have $899 on a gun and you offer $400)I would rather burn the gun that sell it to a dumb @ss .(that one really get me hot)People think we get this things for free.We have to pay for them,and now a days we have to pay good.The internet has changed that.Sellers are more educated .They know what there item is worth and want all they can get.Most of the time we are only making a couple hundred dollars on a gun.New guns are a joke,you can make more on a used gun,but its not like robbing a bank.we have bills to pay,and have more competition than ever before.

what i am trying to say is,be kind,curious,and friendly. make a fair offer,and try to think about both sides of the sell.

"Those aren't selling . . . it isn't a desirable configuration . . . it's really pretty close to being a parts gun . . would you take X dollars?" isn't an offer--it's sizing up the prey. Standup guys use the expression: "I'd like to make you an offer if that's acceptable to you". Standup guys understand that "your word is your bond" only if you stand by your word. On the other side of the equation, splitting the difference on the top 10% is just a "feel good" ceremony if the gun's overpriced by 50%.

jack

I agree with you on the thought of be "be kind,.... friendly.make a fair offer". I am lucky from the buying side I have not had a bad experience yet..Knock on wood. My only problem comes with asking prices which are beyond high. It is like a dealer is fishing for an offer. I may be interested but, I won't even make an offer. I am not good at barganing. I learned this in the orient many years ago. I don't think I am alone when I find high asking prices an insult to an average persons intelligence. Then again there are enough honorable dealers around to keep my safe full, so it is not all bad.
Best,
Ron

Years back I needed a transmission for an old car I owned. I went to a local garage/junkyard (old term) and found one. I asked about it and the owner said he'd sell, but I had to remove it from the car myself. I replied "OK how much" he said "make me an offer" "$100." I said. "SOLD!" he shouted then turned toward the garage and yelled "Closer er up boys we made it for today!" I've been shy about making offers ever since.

As sellers you have to learn to take some crap. Sometimes a guy is a jerk sometimes he needs to learn. A fellow might see a gun he really likes and it just hits him. He knows nothing about it, but he thinks "if I can I'll buy it". His offer is way low and if you run him off -no sale and his little dream ends badly. A pleasant reply educates and may even allow him to think "can I maybe do this anyway" or you may direct him to another gun you have. When I make and offer I'm not looking for lowered brow and spit, I'm looking for a deal or polite counter offer. Guys who blow off customers don't really want to sell they just want you to know what they think they have that you don't. Who wants to deal with that. Its sorta like being around my buddy when he's ginned up and telling me how when driving his BMW he "wishes everybody else would just get off the road"!

I've been reading this thread with my normal level of bile rising. Frankly; What I've been reading here is what has transformed an enjoyable hobby into what it has now become; A business inhabited by blood sucking opportunists looking to suck the last ounce of blood out of a collector. Is this all anyone cares about anymore? Does anyone still enjoy just the opportunity to own and cherish some of the finest effort at gunmaking from a bygone age? It's no wonder we now have a blood sucking opportunist who has been elected as President.
Jim

Heres my take:
I am a dealer. So I buy and sell to and from dealers and retail customers.

When selling I try to price my guns fairly with enough room so I can give a decent value on a trade in which means that if someone offers cash, I can knock something off. Most customers will look a gun over and ask if its my best price. I will usually tell them I have some room. Unless it’s a consignment gun where I usually don’t. Sometimes they ask if I will entertain an offer. I tell them sure, as long as its reasonable but offer away and the worst I can do is say no. Some guys low ball and that’s okay but offering half the value of a gun is a bit over the top. Then there’s the guy who asks “ what’s your best price, the bottom line”. I give him a price ( my bottom line ) and he then offers me 10-20% below that. I bite my tongue.

When buying from other dealers I look over a gun and if usually they know me and tell me they have room and tell me what they will take for it. I usually don’t dicker unless its one I can either take or leave and then I tell them it’s a bit too much for me to make anything. They usually will say either make an offer or “that’s my bottom line:. I either buy or say thanks and there is no more haggling. I am not going to insult them by offering less than what they said was their bottom line.

Then there is the retail customer who is selling. He approaches carrying a gun. I ask if its for sale. He says yes. I ask to look at it and he hands it over. I ask what he wants for it. He says “make an offer”. Usually means he has no clue. I tell him he must have an idea what he wants? He says make an offer. I then say my guns are all priced. I don’t expect people to make blind offers. I do this diplomatically. He may say okay I want XXX dollars. Its usually at least the price of a 95% Blue Book priced or retail +10%. The gun is 60%. Condition with a cut stock, etc. I tell him I cant go that high. He says hey, you can make 25-30 dollars on it at that price. Yeah okay. Riiiiight!!!

Or he sets a price and I say Okay Ill take it. The he says “well I really don’t know if I want to sell it. I want to walk around. We are not talking about a Parker A1 Special for 2K. we are talking run of the mill good solid shooter 70’s, Sterlingworths etc. I agree to his price and he balks. He wants to go to the next guy and say he was offered XXX dollars, what will you give me?

Then there’s the guy who asks for an offer on one he is selling, after he gives an unrealistic price and he says I just got offered XXX dollars. I tell him to take it to that guy and sell it. Usually an hour or so later he is back asking if I am still interested. He never had an offer and he shopped it around and I was the best offer.
Then there’s the guy who says

Then there’s the guy who goes to a show to buy a good double. He looks and agrees on a cash price. Then of course he looks in his wallet and suddenly realizes he only has 500 in cash and says “will you take a check”? on a 4000.00 double, form a guy I don’t know? Who goes to a gun show without taking cash? Of course he says plastic and the deal was cash. He got a discount on the gun and now wants me to eat another 2.5-3% on a credit card sale.


I could go on.

Bottom line is; play fair and you sell/buy and make friends. Jerk people around as a buyer or a seller and you get a rep. you cant shake.

i don't like making offers. i like to put the onus on the dealer, asking what's his bottom dollar then give him credit for enough integrity to be honest. at that point, i either buy it or don't. if i decline and he says "make an offer", sometimes i will.

i've known enough dealers who said they hated someone asking their best price, giving it, then the alleged buyer low balling it. "i just told you my best price and you're offering less?" that's the main reason i like dealing with the same people. dealers who know me tell me their bottom line and i give them credit for the integrity to be honest about it. makes life easy.

regarding the other matter, i one time and one time only asked a dealer if he'd take suchandsuch for something. i was only half interested and had no idea he'd take it. he slapped a 4473 on the counter and i said "well, i guess i just bought that one didn't i!" learned that lesson cheaply at least.

conversely, one time i was set up at a show and a guy asked "will you take suchandsuch for that?" "yeah; i'll take that." "OK. i'll think about it." i went from zero to pi$$ed off that quick. "think about it? listen, feller! you made me an offer and i accepted. you just bought this!" he walked off and for the rest of the show never came back by my table. he'd get part way down the aisle and turn back instead of coming past. unfortunately that's extremely common.

it comes down to a person standing behind his word - both buyer and seller. after getting behind the tables at shows when i lived back east, i learned why some dealers seemed such jerks. years or decades of putting up with buyers. found out when i was wearing an exhibitor badge most were the nicest people you'd care to meet.

roger

Roger I wouldn't use the words that guy used but "will you take suchandsuch for that?" is not the same as "I will give you suchandsuch for that gun."

Another version is "Would suchandsuch buy that gun?" I know a guy that wouldn't reneg on a deal for all the money in the world but he asks that question and means it at face value.

Again I don't use those but the meaning is not an offer but a question about what you would take for the gun.

My counter to those questions is "Is that on offer?" or "Why don't you make me an offer and find out?" or "I made an offer when I priced it, it is your turn."

i see your point and somewhat agree, but that's parsing words awfully fine. i'd hate to be in a court of law with my fate hinging on the distinction. to me, "i'll give you..." and "will you take..." are the same thing.

if the shoe were on the other foot, and the seller threw on the table a price amount, he'd better be prepared to sell it for that because you can bet if the deal is good enough the buyer will expect him to back it up. it has to work both ways.

roger