doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Making offers on guns, trying to understand

John,
back to your original question in why won't people make offers. in my case, it's where the line crosses from tire kicking to buying. if i ask what's the best you'll do and the price is good enough it can push me across the line from just considering to actually buying. on the other hand, the way i look at it, if i make an offer and you accept i'm then obligated to buy it. makes me very, very careful about making offers.

roger

Great input guys!

Brian, seems like you and I have had some of the same people.

One of the things that make me the madest is when folks are interested in a gun and it really is a great deal and they do not reconized it, and want to make crazy offers.

I have a gun dealer friend who sets up at gun shows. He has taken quite a bit of time with the guy about the gun and the guys asks for his bottom dollar cash price, he gives it. If the guys walks aways, he says to him offer make, offer rejected. So he can change his mind on what he offered. His offers are good only at the time made. He does not play games and does not let other play these back and forth games. I am not sure if its a good practice and I am sure the gunshow customers do not like it, but he is very successful in this business.


Stay Well and thanks,


John Boyd

The way I see it, if you have a gun honestly price and the guy does not want to make an offer he is not serious about the gun. Like the one fellow said he may just want to tell him friends about such and such gun he was working on buying. It may also tell us that he does not know what the gun is really worth and if the price represents fair value. If this is the case, is it fair to take up alot of the sellers time when you not serious at that moment. (and way ask for the best price if that is the case?)


Best


John

John,

I can only offer my personal perspective on the subject, but perhaps it may provide some insight to your question.

First, I think that there are a lot of tire kickers out there just looking at guns and that this should be thought of as a good thing for gun dealers. It maintains interest in the items they have for sale and lets the seller know that people are aware of the shop and what's for sale in it. They may not buy a new gun, but perhaps they will drop some money on new shooting gloves, decoys, shells, cleaning supplies, or whatever else is for sale. I recently visited Ivory Beads and was up front about not being ready to buy a gun, but wanted to see what was available and at what price so I could be a more educated buyer when ready to actually make my purchase. I was treated well, and ended up dropping $100 on odds and ends.

Next, I think for the "average" shooter and hunter any gun over $1000 is considered a rather serious investment. Of all my friends that I hunt with, only three of us own guns over $1500. My Quality Arms Arrieta is the most expensive gun of the group and some of my friends can't believe I spent that much money on a gun. As a result, the reason I think that many buyers may make an offer that is accepted and but do not close the deal is the result of a kind of "fear" of "buyer's remorse." They honestly do need to "think" about it.

I also personally HATE negotiating for a major purchase. I want to know what the final cost is upfront. For this reason, I HATE buying new cars, precisely because of the negotiation process and almost always opt for a used car. A house is somewhat different since it is usually unique and a different kind of purchase. But, don't even get me started on the loan industry!

So my used gun buying habits are close to how I go about buying a used car, I think. I do my research and then try and determine what is a "good price" for what I want. Not necessarily a "steal," but something that I feel is "fair." Then, I look high and low and try and find something that is close to that price. Dealers that have products that are significantly over the price I want to pay get scratched from my list immediately. Finally, I narrow it down to 2-3 guns or cars that I am interested in and in the ball park for what I am looking for. I make the calls and buy the one that seems to be the best gun or car for the money. I don't negotiate and do not ask for a discount. After reading this thread, I guess I should.

Now, when I bought my used Arrieta I called a shop that had a gun that I was interested in at a price I was willing to pay. Out of the blue, the dealer told me "if you are really interested in purchasing this gun, I can sell it to you for $500 less." I was shocked at first, but that offer closed the deal and I bought the gun.

I was very happy with my purchase, but what still bugs me is that I know the dealer made money off that gun and that I was willing to pay $500 more for it. What would have happened if he didn't make that offer? Despite several grueling hours of negotiation, I still feel like I got "taken" on my "last and only" new car purchase.

Finally, I think you have take into consideration the economy. I have been setting aside money for a new shotgun (an American classic), but in many ways this is another luxury for me. I really don't "need" another gun. Add to that the current economic situation and the threat from my employer that I might receive and "IOU" in lieu of a paycheck (I work for the state of California), I am now thinking long and hard about dropping the money I budgeted on something that I really don't need despite that I am relatively economically secure.

Hope this helps understand what might be going through some buyer's minds when they walk into your shop.

BTW: I love that Q.A. Arrieta! I believe it may have been a bespoke gun because it is a left handed 578 with a really strange pitch (that has since been corrected).

I have no trouble "making an offer" and have had many accepted. I think both the buyer and seller ended up happy.

In many cases the gunshop owne may be willing to take 10% tp 25% less than the posted price. Especially if you visit that shop regularly, and get to know the staff. Sometimes I see something I covet that has been there for several months, at the same price. It is reasonable to ask "Do you want to sell that to me today for $XXX?"

I think that the current recession will see more gunshop owners willing to consider "offers." It helps to build a relationship with the gunshop manager.

Last week I was in a large gunshop, that I visit often, and the manager took me aside, and said the owner really wants to liquidate more of his inventory, and that he could come down significantly on any shotgun I was interested in.

JERRY

- Hello good morning... What can we help you with?

- Nahhh, just looking... (lie no. 1)

More often than not, sales proceedings are entirely built on lies and deception. As customers, it all starts with the little lies that are not so white: the defensive tactic of claiming to not be interested - that - or either the much more dangerous lie of pretending to be interested. Then as the salesmen make a run for an elusive close, the customers steals off with bits of free knowledge. So much for commitment, so much for getting back in touch. See y a.

That system exists because of bad salesmen who cheated their customers. Just once is enough. It hurts. Seller, buyer, everyone has sales scars that we'd all like to remain hidden, and more often than not, our spouses know of those scars and they sometimes add on to the anguish.

The pain of that hurt is what determines most of the deal making, well beyond the questions of the product at hand and even its price. Very simply put none of us deal with people we don't trust and who seem intent on inflicting pain. It's half body language, half pleasant appearance and a bit of words (but, as per above, nobody believes the words).

We all keep secret the keys to the hidden doors that open straight into our hearts, with luck, finding one such doors makes for a fruitful buyer / seller relationship though we may never know what door or who went trough it, we just know we're there. Conversely, there are the trap doors that open down into the oubliettes of failed deals. On the surface, we may still be arguing about offers and conditions while we're just working up a nerve in search of trust and easily rattled confidence. Bullying each other around does not do much to qualifying a customer who does not fit.

Make an offer? -Well, this is my budget.

Pressed for close tactics? -Only ask what to do next.

Byers remorse? -Be open about figuring out what haunts the deal and offer to help. Give arguments for the wife, for the friends, and especially for the displaced competition. Whether the help is needed or not, it at least reinforces the commitment and repeat business is the easiest one to get.

But, mostly, don't lie. Don't make the customer lie and don't expect to be lied to. This keeps everyone on a level playing field and makes for the best business. Most amazingly, being candidly frank and open about our secret wishes is the surprising way to clear the air and go straight to making deals; at worse, all you can get an -ooohh.

The sales-built-on-lies theory - I got from a book. http://www.sandler.com/content/show/9288

And bears, we catch with double doses of sweet talk and honey. The rest is supply and demand.

Nothing that few trips to Mideastern bazaar could not cure.
I never had problems with negotiating prices of used items. Frankly I don't give a .... what some dealer thinks of me.

USA consumers are not usually very adept at shifting back and forth from fixed price to negotiated price. There is a very real fear of being on the wrong end of: Buyer, "Ha ha! I'd have paid you more!" Seller, "Ha ha, I'd have taken less!" Price negotiation is a learned skill and most people in USA have not learned it, so they are uncomfortable in that kind of dealing.

Idon't know what you guys figure a dealer should make on a gun. My experience is that the seem to want to buy them at prices that will allow them to double their money on resale. Most seem to be looking on customers as dumb schmucks that don't know what they are talking about. With some types of firearms, dealers are the clueless ones. But most of the time, I think both dealer and customer know what they are talking about, it is just an issue of greed.

That said, not all dealers are like this, but I think the majority are. I don't knoe ifi I've ever sold a gun to a dealr and I don't often buy from them either. Esp. at gun shows.

Perception of being gypsyish doesn't help either.