doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Would you choke tube this sxs?

Don,

I don't want to open that can of worms. I own two and they are among my all-time favorites. I would never consider trading either because they have a little punch to them- they are too enjoyable to carry. My theory is they tend to be lighter than a lot of similar o/u's in the same gauge and barrel length. I doubt that they kick any more than a similar weight gun in any gauge with the same loads. I also had a Beretta Golden Snipe 12 ga. that weighed a HAIR over 7 lbs. with 28" barrels. It kicked more than an 8 lb+ Citori for the obvious father physics reasons. I regret terribly selling it and if the ba***rd I sold it to would sell it back it would never get away again. I've noticed a trend that most target game shooters tend to shy away from sub 8 lb. 12 gauges too. I hate 8 lb. twelves.

My philosphy whether talking about shotguns, handguns or AR15's is this: I think there are basically two types of guns- carrying guns and shooting guns. Carrying guns aren't much fun to shoot and shooting guns aren't much fun to carry.

That being said, I also suspect short forcing cones and tight bore dimensions add somewhat to perceived recoil, but I don't want to argue that with any board members either. Some people happily argue powder burn rates and recoil impulse and the effect they have on perceived recoil. I won't.

I'll take a "carrying gun" to walk up birds. If I want to shoot more than two or three rounds of trap or skeet I would use a "shooting gun". If I plop my rear on a dove stool or in a duck blind I don't care what I use. I consider 101's to be carrying guns in general. I wouldn't buy a 7 lb. 4 oz. 101 to shoot mutiple rounds of clays, as the clay game shooters have formed a concensus, by the hundreds if not thousands, that they are "kickers" and have moved on to gas guns or 8 lb.-plus guns for games.

I don't know what happened to my reply to Duff but here it is again: You're surely welcome to respectfully disagree with me on this or any other subject. However, my experience in lengthening forcing cones on several of my own guns showed no reduction in recoil. Whether it changes your patterns or not is another story but brings up the question of do you need different patterning? The fact is that recoil has nothing to do with the shape or length of forcing cones, bore ID or any other mythical crap promoted by the barrel jockeys. Recoil is determined by the weight and velocity of the ejecta and the gun weight.
About 40 years ago, when this barrel magic was just beginning to show up as an expensive solution to a nonexistent problem, the American Rifleman's expert staff stated that "nothing you can do to the inside of the shotgun barrel will reduce recoil unless it reduces velocity". That was true then and true today. Believe what you want.
jl

WHAT?!? Better tell Sears, Roebuck & Co.

FROM THE 1908 CATALOG: "Shooting qualities- As before explained, the shooting qualities of these guns are unequaled for long distance killing, long range shooting, for penetration, pattern or target. Both barrels are full choke bore, so firmly constructed that unlike other guns, there is no recoil or kicking. That which in other guns goes into recoil in the A J Aubrey gun goes to give greater force to the shot."

Jim Legg,

I agree with and understand what you say. I have never personally had cones lengthened on a gun. I understand the theory but have no firsthand experience. If it improves patterning, eliminating flyers or holes I am all for trying it. Yes, I think a lot of this stuff is snake oil, advanced by folks that stand to gain monetarily by peddling it. And I have an accurate understanding of the physics of recoil. If I made my living reaming out forcing cones I would probably be convinced I was doing humanity a favor by doing as many as I could at $55.00 a pop.

So, we don't really disagree. I will pattern the new gun, shoot it a bunch, and probably have the full choke relieved if it seems it might work better for me and my intended uses. This isn't a museum piece or collector grade weapon.

I appreciate your opinions.

And I want one of those non-recoiling twelve gauges with both barrels choked full that magically converts all the energy of recoil to propelling the shot. That is a nifty trick revdocdrew.

Once again, it is great to have you guys to provide input and other ways to look at things in deciding what I should do. Thank you for your opinions and wisdom.

Also, I'll give the seller a plug. Jay Hill at Classic Arms is great to deal with. I have bought, sold and traded many a gun with him over the course of the last 8 or 9 years. He is knowledgeable, fair and a good egg. He has appraised several guns for me and we seem to agree 99.9% of the time, even though I think this Miroku should have really changed hands for $750.00. His description of this gun in his web ad is extremely conservative, which is the norm. That being said, I happily paid his asking price after handling it the second time. I just wish he had a website. But on second thought, you guys would beat me out of good deals before I had the chance to even see them probably if he did have a website. Still, I would rate him among the good guys in this business based on a couple of dozen experiences.

Some day , I am going to find a Miroku like that. Of course I need to ask the boss first to see if she agrees I need another shotgun. But that gun is almost perfect for me with 2 triggers. It would look good along side my Miroku Superior.

Duff, if it makes you feel any better, I think that gun was a bargain at $899. I bought a similar Miroku 500 20 ga last year for $950 and was pleased. My has a splinter f/e (which I prefer) and a blued frame. Yours has one of the relatively rare cased colored frames, and that makes it easily worth the asking price. The only things keeping that gun from being perfect would be a splinter f/e and a straight grip.

My theory on shotgunners is that they buy a light gun and complain about recoil, and buy a heavy gun and complain about how heavy it is