doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Parker Records

All of the above, except the former Remington employee was not disgruntled, and the one book I know of is not in the garage. Yes, some went to a landfill, and the remaining Stock and Order books are still and always have been at Remington, some on display in the museum, the rest safely stored away and not propping up any desks.

Babe Del Grego told me that when he and his dad picked up the left-over Parker inventory and special tools in order to take over the Parker parts and repair business in the mid-1950s, the records were theirs for the taking if they wanted them. But they didn't consider them valuable at the time.

I have photocopies of one "missing" order book from 1873.

Babe also told me that the Remington employees did not consider the big heavy books worth safekeeping, and they were stored in a basement furnace room that sometimes took on water, being near to the Erie Canal. Over the years, some, perhaps all of the missing books were dropped on the wet or submerged floor to serve as stepping stones and were thus destroyed and disposed of.

Given that the Parker Story people had photocopied some of the records, I deferred to the "power" and wrote about other things. Yet as much as my ear has been to the ground for the past 15 years, no one has ever told me about any of the "missing" books being in collector's possession. As I said, I know of one.

As to the "flap" of 2003, there was no issue as to the original Stock and Order books as they reside at Remington. The PGCA has the Stock Book photocopies made by the Parker Story people, and the photocopies of the Order Books made by Ron Kirby and other PGCA members who camped out for a week in Ilion. Any dispute had to do with Ron computerizing the records on his own time; any PGCA member then willing to travel to Wake Forest had access to the photocopies for research and copying and, if he had unlimited time, could have done the same.

Ron was not willing to give up his personal work product and there was no reason he should have. The PGCA directors picked up the PGCA property and records, but did not choose to compensate Ron for his computer-generated data and search program, so he kept his personal work product, and the new BOD started from scratch. End of story. EDM

I remain skeptical.I talked to Remington in 1990 0r 91 about the records and got a different view.There are also players in this with something of consequence to gain or lose if all the records are available for review,with respect to all the upgraded guns sold as original and vetted by the "experts.Many of these guns are in old collections and will one day see the light of day along with their spurious provenance.I wonder how many lawsuits have been filed in regards to fake Parkers.

"I wonder how many lawsuits have been filed in regards to fake Parkers."

Probably not as many as 'will have been filed' should such enlightening records ever become publicly available. But, by that time, upon whom would such lawsuit be brought? Better yet, against who's long-since probated estate?

Will the old saying in regards to "sins of the fathers" have any relevence?

Not in a court of law.

It is rapidly becoming a part of 'the history of the Parker Gun'.

Recently I've visited the DelGrego's shop and Young Larry stated that they had some of the Parker records in their control. He seemed not to hesitate in throwing a dig at the PGCA.

A "talk with Remington in 1990 or 1991" would have little to do with today's Parker world. In 1997, and even earlier, Remington opened their archives to the authors of The Parker Story and to the PGCA Research Team for serious research. I also think all this talk about missing records is unfair to those who are being discussed. If you want to know about your Parker, order a PGCA letter of provenance. If the records on your gun are missing, you get your money back. Bill M.

The point is that there is reasonable doubt that the entire extant Parker records are available for research.Remington employees told me that they,meaning Remington, did not want to get involved with the legal hassles that they foresaw if the Parker records were made public. They changed their mind,but they only had part of the records to make public.I agree that some of the people involved in this are no longer here to give their side of the story. I also think that none of this takes anything away from the skill of the Parker employees or the value of the guns they created,whether in 1890 or 1977.Let the "lost" records surface,if they do exist,and let the guns stand on their own merits.

"Let the 'lost' records surface,if they do exist,and let the guns stand on their own merits."

My sentiments, too. There are enough miscreants loose who should be quartered to concern ourselves with tarted or misrepresented guns. Reasonable doubt doesn't resonate with me, either. Nothing is safe or certain. Why expect it from the provenance of guns? I'm fortunate to have the enjoyment of their craftsmanship, and whoever said a little naughty or spooky stuff isn't a spicy ingredient of our obsession, our curiosity, too!

The idea that the PGCA is the final authority and steward of Parker records leaves a lot to be desired. It's a good start, but certainly if there is more to be had than no one collector, or group of collectors, should have more access to it than others. In fact, I would question the integrity of anyone claiming to care about the Parker gun if they are sitting on information.

Though I have no quarrel with the PGCA /research letter process, I do tend to wonder why there are some, such as 8 bore, who seem to have greater access to records (and they like to flaunt it in their oh-so-subtle manner). It's a sort of oneupsmanship I find distasteful.