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Hi All,

I am considering purchasing a Watson Brothers 12 gauge SxS circa 1926. From what I can gather it is their best grade with 30" barrels.

I would appreciate any information on the maker and the quality of this particular SxS.

Thanks

Information provided by the Internet Gun Club.

Thomas William Watson was reportedly married to Mary Louisa Tranter, one of the four daughters of William Tranter, the Birmingham gunmaker. If this is true, and it is doubtful, he probably married her (aged about 20?) in the late 1850s or early 1860s, and he would have been much older than she was (he appears to have retired in 1885).
Other reports state that Thomas Watson was married to one of Durs Egg's daughters. If this is true it would explain how, in 1875, he came to acquire the business of Durs Egg at 4 Pall Mall, London, after John Egg reportedly died in 1873.

Reportedly, his foreman at the time was John Masters, John Masters was recorded as being foreman for the firm of Durs Egg, but only until 1861.

When Thomas retired in 1885, his sons, Thomas and Arthur Henry Watson took over. The firm was re-named Watson Brothers. By this time the firm had been appointed Gunmakers to His Imperial Majesty The Sultan of Turkey. At some time they were also appointed gunmakers to the Shah of Persia.

The firm reportedly patented a pistol sight (the firm never claimed to be pistol makers!), and a single trigger with Thomas Bain (Patent No. 10986). Neither of these patents have been verified but one for a leaf rearsight incorporating a helical cam (No. 1272/1906) was patented by a C H Watson (a third brother or son of Thomas or Arthur?) and F W W Baker.

In 1894 Watson Brothers moved to Observatory House, 31 Cockspur Street, Charing Cross where they were recorded as being opticians as well as gun and rifle manufacturers, but in 1895 they moved to 29 Old Bond Street where they traded as gun and rifle manufacturers, and an "Agency for moors, Shootings, Fishings &c.".

In 1929 they moved to 13a Pall Mall.

Thomas died in 1933, and in 1935 Arthur retired. The firm, which had a reputation for small bore guns for ladies and boys, was bought by Stephen Grant & Joseph Lang Ltd. It moved to their premises at 7 Bury Street and only a few guns were made in the Watson name over the following years. The last of the Watsons, Arthur D Watson (grandson of the founder?), worked for Grant & Lang as Sales Director.

Ebeneezer Hands was stocker for the company, his signature was a teardrop on the comb of the stock.

In 1984 "Grant & Lang", by that time Churchill, Atkin, Grant & Lang Ltd, was bought by Chubbs Ltd (Chubbs of Edgware Ltd, owned by Fred Buller). The Watson name was briefly active between 1984 and 1989 as Hellis Beesley & Watson, Gunmakers, 33 South Parade, Mollison Way, Edgeware, London. In 1989 the Watson Bros name was sold to Michael Louca (ex Purdey) who traded at 2-5 Old Bond Street and at 4 Waterworks Cottage, Addisham Road, Addisham, Canterbury, Kent. In 1991, as Watson Brothers Gunmakers Ltd, the firm moved to 39 Redcross Way, London Bridge, London. It is believed that the records of the firm are available.

Harry,

Welcome to the Board. Here's a start on Watson Brothers. Would be useful to post your logic for the year, 1926. S/N for that year begins with 8,717 according to Nigel Brown's London Gunamkers (p. 130), 1998. In any case, suggest you post a description of the proof marks on the barrel flats or even a photo if you have that digital capability and can figure your way through the "post a photo" in the Boards useful info.

Brown writes that the firm began in 1875 under Thomas Wiliam Watson, son-in-law of noted Birmingham gunmaker William Tranter.
He opened in London at Pall Mall in 1878 and handed the business to his two sons in 1885 when it became Watson Bros., lasting until Grant & Lang took it over in 1935. The firm established an excellent reputation for small bore shotguns for ladies and boys of which many are still in circulation. Grant & Lang kept the name alive. After some vicissitudes, Michael Louca, a former Purdey workman bought the name in 1989, and has been making round-bodied, self-opening sxs guns, and since 1992 and o/u model that is Boss-like. Originally in Canterbury, Kent, Louca moved to London in the 90s.

Good stuff, turnagain, from the Internet Gun Club, you posted while I was looking up in London Gunmakers.

Regards, Tim

HK - the gunmaker's name, best grade, a date is not sufficient for much of an opinion. Watson's made a wide range of guns, as did most makers (had to to keep the doors open!). A photo(s) would be very useful. Following is tip on three field of information that help understand guns and values.

For Brit and Continental guns, a target value for a 12 bore SxS (1890ish to 1960ish)of typical finish at USA retail can be established from Brand Value level of the maker's name, the Original Quality grade of the individual gun, and Current Condition level. Maker's name is not sufficint information for pricing as most makers made a wide range of guns and guns vary widely as to the condition they are currently in. Watson's has BV level two (BV2). They will price at 2/3 of a BV1 and 1 1/2 times a BV3. If the gun is a best grade from 1926 (the style was well set by that date), it will be a sidelock ejector with near 100% coverage of engraving, excellent metal to metal and metal to wood fit, stocked to the fences, enclosed lumps, probably a H&H Royal type action, excellent barrel striking, wood of very high quality and, likely, "flashy" figure; basically, no compromises in workmanship or materials.

Post back to discuss further and if you have more information.

I just took in a Watson Bros 16 bore ble with 29" barrels. Much prettier than the average ble and typical of some of their output- Holt's sold a stunning Watson pigeon gun in September - again a boxlock with strong but graceful engraving covering everything.

They specialised in small bores and some of their little guns are exceptionally pretty.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive information, it certainly helped me build a better understanding of Watson Brothers.

Some further information, the serial number of this particular Watson is 8665. It is a sidelock with no underlumps, and a concealed third bite. It is completely engraved with "Watson Brothers" across each of the sidelock. The case colors are around 90%, it is an ejector with 30" barrels. The timber is magnificent, with the tear drops at the end of the comb.

Again thanks to everyone, I really appreciate your help.

Does it look like this one:

http://ospreyarms.com/category_details.php?i=1&id=213

If it does, I would call it a Best-grade gun.

OWD

Yes, It is identical to that, just with more vivid case colors and the original case with accessories.

Thanks Again.

It sounds like a nice gun.

Is it all original or redone? Is it a heavy proofer?

Does a dealer have it or is it a private seller?

OWD

From what I can gather it is original condition, apparently this particular Watson has been in storage for some time.

It is in game configuration and proofed for 1 1/8 loads, choked quarter and three quarter.

It is privately owned, but been sold via a dealer on consignment.

Appreciate the help.

Harry K