doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com .250 Roberts

A long time ago I purchased a high wall Winchester with a 25-20 Winchester barrel on it. The barrel had been restamped "A. O. Neidner" and the caliber was restamped to ".250 Roberts". The rifle was also restocked. It turns out that the caliber is actually .25 Krag. So the mystery is in the .250 Roberts caliber. Is this an early name for the .25 Krag?
Thanks for any info.
Blair

This is strictly from memory and is only my opinion, but I always heard and read that Roberts tried many different cases and combinations of dimensions before finally deciding upon the 7x57 case necked down (or the 6x57 necked up or 6.5x57 necked down, depending upon your perspective, G). We also know that Neidner tried many different combinations as well, and who's to say that Neidner and Roberts didn't collaborate or at least exchange info about this particular cartridge? I can visualize a scenario in which they collaborated and then Neidner named this particular chambering for his colleague.

IMO it may also be significant that the original Remington 30s were marked '25 Remington Roberts' or '257 Remington Roberts', underscoring the fact that there were other similar 25-caliber Roberts cartridges known to the shooters of the day. IMO it's very possible that Remington chose this designation not only for their own publicity but also to differentiate it from the other known 25-cal Roberts developments. Of course all these other Roberts and Neidner cartridges have faded into obscurity except for the 257 and 25-06, and IMO the 'Remington' designator was then dropped since it was no longer necessary.

Of course it could have been that Remington just added another word to their already-existing '25 Remington' stamp, and that I'm full of it as usual.
Regards, Joe

Blair, did you actually shoot that .25 Krag? If so, did it work OK with the 117/120 gr. long bullets, or was it strictly a varmint rifle? My .25-20 WCFs don't handle anything longer than 86 gr. very well.

Can you post a picture of the stampings?

I have a Neidner Mauser in what I call .25 Roberts. Although the barrel is not marked for the caliber, the rifle came with a wooden shipping crate with Ned Roberts name and address on it. Also came with a set of custom RCBS dies and chamber cast that the dies were made from. The cartridge is based on the 7x57 case, but has more body taper and shallower shoulder. I'll try to get some pictures posted of the cartridge.

John

John,

When I was recovering from the bug I cough up on some reading. I read the article PS did on you and your company, an interesting read.

Mike, I did shoot the rifle with a few cases that I blacksmithed up. It worked OK at 100 yards with the 87 gr. sierra softpoints, but wasn't a tackdriver or anything. The bore isn't in the best of shape either. Michael, I'll try to get some pictures of the rifle and get them posted on the forum. The camera is my wifes, she is blonde, and yes the CD for the software is somewhere, but she isn't sure.??
I reckon the thing I was wondering about is whether or not the rifle was some sort of collaboration between Neidner and Roberts, although that is pure speculation and the truth is lost to time.
Blair

Here is a really poor picture of above mentioned rifle. I have only shot it a little but is shows promise. I hope to play around with it and see what it will do.



Michael,
Thanks for taking the time to read the article. One of the things I like about NRA Highpower Shooting is all the history and tradition that surrounds the sport. All the old greats from Elmer Keith to Arthur Hart, walked the ranges of camp Perry at one time and participated in a sport that is very much the same as it is today. However, I also like to win, so as much as I'd like to take an 03 to Ohio this summer, I am sure I'll be taking my trusty "old" AR-15.

John

Don't know if these will show up or not, but here goes a try anyway. Comments please. The original barrel was removed while I used a new Douglas barrel for Scheutzen competition.
Blair

I have a Griffin & Howe high wall with the same .25 Roberts marking.

Your barrel with the A. O. Niedner, Malden, Mass markings predates the formation of Niedner Rifle Company in Dowagiac, Mich. I believe all of them are pre WW1. How was the extractor for a rimless cartridge set up on your highwall?

I have a few rifles that are so marked. One is a mid range Borchardt with .25 Krag barrel that Michael commented on while visiting. Another is a 1903 Springfield converted to .22 LR single shot - one of about a dozen he did before WW1.