doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Purdey with 2 1/2 chambers increased to 2 3/4

I am looking at an early Purdey that is 100% original except the chambers have been increased from 2 1/2 to 2 3/4 many years ago and re-proofed by Sir Joseph Whitworth.

My concern is this:
1. How does this affect the value of the gun;
2. Does this make the gun less desirable;
3. If the gun checks out would the change in chambers bother you;
4. Should I pass on this gun and stick with an original 2 1/2 gun;

I want a gun that is easy to resell and will hold its value (increase in value would be better). If getting a gun with increased chambers, even if properly re-proofed, will make the gun difficult to sell, or creates a "white elephant", I will pass on this gun. Also, if I purchase this gun I realize I need to use low pressure loads.

Thanks.
Ken

Ken, one problem I foresee is that whoever had it reproofed, or others who have owned it since, may think that having 2 3/4 inch chambers means that it will take any 2 3/4 inch shell and may have put lots of inappropriate shells through it. If you know the history of the gun and can be satified that this has not happened then it would be OK. However, I cannot say anything about further resale value.

Hope that helps.

"I want a gun that is easy to resell and will hold its value (increase in value would be better)."

If this is an investment, then depending on price, it's a bad one. (At a low enough price you may be getting a bargain, but not at Fair Market Value for an unaltered gun.)

If you are looking for a gun to use then it may or may not be a good deal. Ian's given you excellent advice in either case.

Consider that if you are asking these questions, the next buyer will also. So, you will have to take the appropriate discount when you purchase and understand that you will have to give a similar discount when you sell. "In-proof" is helpful, but I don't think SJW did it- are you refering to SJW steel barrels?

To answer directly: The rechambering will drop both the desirability and value of the gun. I shoot several guns that were rechambered, using appropriate loads, and it doesn't bother me a bit. "Warts" is pretty much a fact of life for those who collect and shoot older guns; your comfort level and wallet level will dictate how many and how big "warts" can be on your guns. Originality increases likely ease of reselling and value retention. However, price will always be the key; any gun will sell at the right price. Getting top market price is what takes awhile, high condition or not. Purdey is always desirable. "White elephant" is a function of price.

Ken,
The whitworth markings may refer to the steel used but Whitworth wasn't allowed by British Law to re-proof, That has to be done in a Proof House. The alterations could have been carried out by anyone, including a back street 'gunsmith'.

If you can borrow the gun, take it to a qualified gunsmith and pay him for an honest opinion, If he O/K's it you've spent slightly more than the asking price. If he says No. Then you've spent a little money to save yourself a lot.

Remember Proof Marks only say the gun has passed proof (dimensions within manufacturing specs and test firing) and that Proof was only really valid at the time it was done, not decades later when parts may have worn so the dimensions are no longer within 'Proof Limits'.

Old guns should never be shot with modern loads. It doesn't matter how good the manufacturers reputation is.

Purdeys should be able to tell you when the shotgun was made and what loads it was proofed for. All you need is a description of the gun and the serial no.

Harry

Harry

"Buyer's Proof" is done by measuring with a wall thickness gauge, not by observing stamps on barrel flats. As has been suggested, stamps not put there by the makers at the time of manufacture can only detract from the value of the gun.

I would like to thank everyone for their input.

The qun in question is a 1905 Purdey 12 guage with a serial number of 18561. The gun is being offered by Roger Bain. I have already emailed Purdey with the serial number. Asking price for the gun is $15K. I am already starting to think I should hold out for something original, however, this appears to be a nice gun.

Ken

Sometimes I think folks are a lot more interested in investments rather than shotguns.

The simplest way to look at it, is do you like it? Is it worth the asking price TO YOU?

If you want to invest - go out and buy a mutual fund.

Personally, I have nothing against altered guns. If I like the gun and want it more than I want the cash involved, that I own it. Worrying about what it will resell for is only for those that are dealing - not for real users.

Brent

Not that I own, or am ever likely to own, a Purdey but if you're leaning more towards an "investment" purchase, I would think it's a bad idea. IMO true investment guns are absolutely 100% unmessed with or those with some kind of unique provenance. That goes for Purdey, Parkers, Foxs, or any other make of gun.

If you're looking for a shooter that will hold it's value, it may not be a bad purchase. Short of major damages or really bizarre alterations, I can't imagine a Purdey would decrease much from reasonable use. The board has given good advice here and I would tend to agree with them.

Not really. British guns of this age are routinely reproved as a matter of course. Many British makers recommend it for the older guns, even those that have not been altered and don't appear to be out of proof.

Sure, alterations usually reduce price, and lengthening the chambers did this Purdey no favours. However, a simple, precautionary reproof of an unaltered pre-WWI gun does not.