doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LIndner Daly Tube Steel Types

Ken ... I should have known the Sauer Daly (the model 80) would have been the entry level(?) gun in the early 1900's but had not given it alot of thought as I do not have any Daly catalogs...except for a few early SD&G reprints. Great info you have provided for us Sauer nuts about the model 80 and thanks for clarifing the grade and model for me.

Clair...in regards to Sauer US patent 505006...it appears to have fallen out of use/favor some time around 1900. My thought at this time is that this method of barrel construction was just to expensive to produce. There was a ton of machining time involved in this barrel production method. Guten Tag Jeff

$ 200 in 1913 / adjusted for inflation would equate to
~ $4,265.52 in 2009 dollars........

just right for a full boat RBL, or ~ AYA sidelock

I don't think the quality of either compares to these old boxlocks as they would have come from the factory!

- JBP

Thanks for confirming, John.

Don't every worry about hijacking one of my threads as that is about the state of it when it begins. I think you are referring to: http://www.triebel.de/en/triebel/index.htm which was probably a Triebel offshoot as a firearms merchant. But I was referring to the Suhl Triebels such as Christopher(?), Christopher(?) Friedrick, Richard, A.& W. or K. & W., Otto, and I think Kerner had some association with a Triebel. But H.A. Lindner married Hedwig Triebel in the late 1870s and that combined with H.A. Lindner’s mother being Dorothea Kolb Lindner, a close relative of the engraver Hugo Kolb, possibly a sister????, formed a gunmaking network that somehow included V.C. Schilling. Remember it is always about economics. Schilling, along with Greenwood & Batley-Leeds, Mauser, National Arms and Ammo. Company Limited-Birmingham, Spangenbert & Sauer and a few others, had a feast in making the Model 1871 rifles for the arsenals at Danzig, Erfurt, Spandau and Amberg(Bavaria). This allowed Schilling to acquire his machinery. Spandau is/was an arsenal about 10 miles from Berlin and Spandau was the location to which the Potsdam efforts were moved. Model 1809s, or converted M 1809s, were made at Prussian Potsdam Arsenal, which is about 20 miles from Berlin, as well as Saarn(converted Monastery in 1815), Neisse, Suhl and Dresden(and maybe Gdansk-Poland).

But back to the post WWI Dalys, was there a transition back to the 48mm(standing breech to end of the watertable) from the 56mm/improved and modified A&D or were they mixed?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

In Lindner's case, I am not certain but do not think so.
Thanks for recognizing the integration of the many members of this "clan"
Best,
John

It was truly a cottage industry with "clan economics", which you've coined Mr. Mann, or "family economics", possibly with a hint of nepotism as I'm sure Lindner spread the wealth/work around to family members.

Anyone know the serial number range or serial number of the last Lindner-Daly? Maybe more correctly phrased as what is the highest recorded Lindner Daly serial number of the last range? And about what year?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr:
Wish I knew your name as you are a wealth of studious information of unusual soundness.
Now that the BS is posted,LOL.
This may be difficult if not impossible to ascertain with certainty.
Seven years ago some old retired workers in Suhl were interviewed with the intent of learning about Lindner and his work. The consensus was that he was known but seemed to be somewhat too private for most to have remembered more than that he was an important gunmaker that did well financially.
We were able to learn a fair amount about his personal life that was not known before. Documents were ferreted out of the few remaining paper items that were not used for the war effort. Thanks to the German penchant for recording everything. That and a few pack rats that threw out nothing !!!LOL
We were not able to locate any factory records and my thinking is that Lindner tossed them. Remember---his only child, that he trained in fine gunmaking and fully expected to take over the business, had been killed very early in the war. He must have been greatly affected and saw little left to live for.

It is entirely possible that the last very few guns were of Schuler finishing. I do not doubt that is possible. Everything I learned about this man was that he accepted nothing less than perfection in his life and would not have allowed anything that bore his mark to pass out without his approval.But, there is the supposition that his mark was used after his retirement.
Having learned this man, as well as possible so long after his working years and death, I may be in error. But, I think that he approved the Schuler building from leftovers and approved their shipment to Daly.
Therefore that last real Lindner built gun may never be known unless the Schuler records throw some light. I wish that they were available.
Best regards,
John

Mr. Mann:

Sure my info is unusual, but if it were solely mine, time might prove something otherwise than sound. As I've stated before, my sources such as GGCA, and Ken's valiant efforts; DGJ, yours and Hans contributions; Mr. Cate's text; chance meetings, such as with Mr. Bob Jones; and general observation are to be noted and given credit. My mother says that I seem to be a child of the Depression, just about 40 years late, but I guess the pack-rat in me can be traced to my German roots.

At any rate, examples such as Mr. Hallquist's 1924 Daly seem to point toward being finished by Schuler with tubes from Sempert & Krieghoff finished by Moritz Schilling, or someone with similar "M.S." initials. Sempert & Krieghoff/Heinrich Krieghoff with his older brother Ludwig, Jr. not only was able to acquire the machinery of Valentine Christoph Schilling but in the mid to late 1930s acquired some machinery from the Erfurt/(Saarn transfered facility) arsenal(I think the Treaty of Versille called for it to be privatized(?)), which was some of the Simson/BSW/Gustloff-Werke(if very late 1930s) machinery. I think Schuler and Sempert & Kreighoff were closely intertwined. The subject frame is the shorter 48mm version which I don't think Lindner, living, would have allowed. Lindner may or may not have approved it, but longarms were produced and sold until the network fully folded. Lindner was the key.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

As far as I can see, Lindner was the key to what was shipped from Suhl to Daly until his death.
There is some unconfirmed speculation that his widow allowed his mark to be used for a year or so after that time. This was probably due to the "clan" associations.
In time, ellenbr and other researchers will uncover more and perhaps better information about this man that built, supervised such outstanding shotguns.We can only hope and look to that day.
I have to take a moment of personal privilege here.
I did my very best and my bank account will attest, to bring this great man's work to us today. With the sudden death of my partner, Hans Pfingsten, that was left to me. I was not able to sustain the effort.
This man's(Lindner) guns should be built again.
I am open to listen.
Best,
John

Anyone want to venture a guess at the maker? Anyone in need of a 10 bore? Seems like a good deal: http://www.bobjonesguns.com/details.asp?id=4480S .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse