doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Fired shells get tight in my Smith

One other thought, besides checking for chamber length and the forcing cones, if you can find some older Federal paper Purple 16 shells with the older pie crimp and paper wad seal, if not, then I'd try a box of the RST paper 16 shells in the 2.5" length, assuming the crack in the chamber can be repaired and the gun reproofed.

Sometimes plastic hulls can cause chamber problems. An example is a friend, an avid clays shooter with several older Belgium Browning Superposed guns- like me, he reloads Win. AA hulls, and he has to carefully bronze brush the chambers of his Brownings, or they will rust from shooting the AA reloads- Once after a complete cleaning he shot 100 clays at a DU Sporting Clays shoot and used older Federal paper Champion Trap Loads- he then ran a long brushy cleaner from the club house through both barrels and- not one spec of rust- nor three days later when he shot that gun next. I don't own or plan to own a 16, so I can only offer you my experiences with 12 gauges.

Francis:

The man says the chamber is cracked. Do you really think advising him to fire another brand of shell is prudent?

I'm pretty sure he got the message. Hopefully, the gun is on it's way to a qualified 'smith about now.

My father always destroyed a gun that couldn't or wouldn't be fixed. I never understood why when I was younger, but, I do now.
Best,
Ted

Certainly not- thanks for correcting this oversight-I went back and re-wrote what I meant to say. As a retired power plant welder, I am very familar with Magna Flux- as far as a TIG weld in that area, unless I saw the barrels, I might wonder how to access the torch and non-consumable tungsten electrode into the chamber- if it could be welded from the bottom of the barrel flat into the chamber, without distortion and putting the chamber out of round, then maybe it is repairable. Kirk Merrington is the best barrel man in the USA, IMO. I'd get his opinion. Just curious, if any other Browning Superposed shooters that reload on this website have experienced the minor rusting, especially with Winchester AA hulls??

Your father was a wise man Ted. Hard to do sometimes with an old favorite. A writer once said something like this: "The first time a gun misfires, get it fixed- if it misfires again, sell it". In theory, that follows: "Never play poker with a man named Doc" or "Never eat at a place called Mom's-- A friend inherited a older GHE Parker 20 bore, with double triggers- the ejectors were getting out of timing, and the sears were worn (the gun was built about 1913 I believe) and after a few close calls bird hunting (by himself) he took it to a Joe-Blow gunsmith whose father-in-law had a machine shop with a TIG welder (Miller 300 amp Gold Star to be specific)- Mr. Blow used TIG and filler rod to build up the worn areas on the sears, but did NOT anneal them first- nor let them cool gradually in a thermal blanket post welding-never had them re-heat treated either, ground the build up TIG deposited metal down and re-assembled the gun. Paul took it out to the gun club to shoot clays- he loaded both barrels, and with the safety on, closed the gun- it automatically fired the first barrel as the sear failed, and the opening lever came open. He sued Mr. Blow, and shipped the gun to Del Grego and sold it to him for the parts, stock and barrels- and bought a Parker Repro 20 with Double Triggers and straight hand stock- 26" barrels open chokes- and has never looked back. Unfortunately, Mr. Blow is still in business. You can never be too careful with any mechanism, and your words of wisdom are a caution to all of us who often peruse the used shotgun market. Looks to me like you inherited the same degree of common sense your father possesed- a very good thing!! RWTF

The chamber rusting with plastic shells was not confined to Superposed guns. Recall reading a report on this many years ago in the Rifleman. Seems the problem was the chambers are left dry & unprotected after firing. The wax treatment on the paper hulls left a protective coating in the chambers after they were fired. If the chambers are not given some protection shortly after firing they are left in a condition conducive to rusting when plastic shells are used especially if enough shots have been fired to build up heat enough to dry out any oily deposit which may have been there.

Thanks Two-Piper. Wonder if that was peculiar to the barrel steels in the early Belgium mfg. Superposed guns. Never heard of that from the guns in the gun club that shoot the Japanese mfg. Citori models. Don't own a Browning, or for that matter, a Weatherby, always thought of them as a status gun for the upper bracket boys. I also have been warned about salt water damage to Brownings, so like buying a Parker- is it an original BHE or a counterfeit? You need a qualified expert for guidance perhaps.

You are right,Ted, this Smith is not going to be shot until it has been repaired and proofed. I have been thinking that this defect would have been very unlikely for me to notice on any inspection, unless I had been sensative to chamber cracks from a previous experience. This gun was given to me, but I would have bought it in a heartbeat if it was priced right. I also have been considering how to warn others that this gun is not safe, in case I decide not to get it repaired. If I just put it back in my gun cabinet, someday someone else, maybe a relative, would be dealing with a cracked chamber. Dan

Dan,
"Proofed" in the case of your gun, is likely going to be limited to your gunsmith taking the gun to a trap club and using it for a round or two of trap, sporting clays, or skeet, should he choose to undertake the repair.
There is no organization or law pertaining to proof in the United States. Europe clings to a proof system, which, pretty much assures that a gun will have a bunch of stamp marks struck into the flats or on the sides of the barrels, and further assures someone that the gun passed proof on a given day. There is no assurance the gun could do it again, even the next day. Failure of guns, proofed in Europe, or, unproofed here in the States, is a pretty rare event, and is usually related to things beyond the control of the proof house anyway, a stuck base wad or plugged bore being about the most common, it seems. American guns, proofed and used in Europe, don't fail proof at higher rates than European guns, which would seem to point in the direction of American gunmakers and gunsmiths knowing what they are doing.
If you don't fix it, consider donating the gun to a gunsmithing school. It would likely either be repaired, or, it's parts used to repair others. That ends the problem of someone after you dealing with a potentially catastrophic failure, and is much less brutal and wasteful than the "hacksaw" method employed by my father.
Good luck.
Best,
Ted

Thanks for explaning about proofing, Ted. I guess a each gunsmith would have his proceedure for checking out a repaired gun safely. I did take this gun to a smith to be checked for safety when I got it. I guess I can't hold him responsible for not seeing some fine cracks, but I don't know. If he looked at the chambers under magnification, he would have seen what I saw, unless the cracks got more noticable after a few shells. Dan