doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com My New Knock-About

Guys: I just acquired a J.P. Sauer & Son "Knock-About" Gun from Von Lengerke & Detmold. It seemed a practical field gun, and my gut told me it was worth quite a bit more than marked (I paid $1300), so I trusted my instincts and grabbed it without doing the research I normally would. Here are it's stats:

* SLNE #78867 with cocking indicators and bushed firing pins, 7 lbs 9 oz
* 30" barrels, choked M/IM, 2.75 chambers, "Krupp Steel Germany" on barrels
* Solid well-figured wood, 14.25 LOP over Pachmeyer pad, 1.5 @ comb 2.75 @ heel
* Single ivory bead, dolls-head third fastner
* On extractor face: 70
* On flats: 13/1; 12 in circle; B S U and W (each under a crown); two larger crowns
* On water table: B and U (under crowns), FD in script (the engraver?)

Twin to gun pictured on p. 87 of Vol. 15 Issue 3 of the DGJ (but without the cracked stock). Article suggests an 1899 gun, older than I assumed it to be, but still a solid, unmessed with, 85-90% gun. A bit surprised by the chamber length for a 110-year-old gun, but the 70 (mm, I assume) on the extractor makes me think it's factory.

Looking for suggestions as to value and smart field loads. Any thoughts will be appreciated as always. Happy hunting. TT

I can't suggest a load or value but I thought you might be interested to know that it was received in inventory at Von Lengerke & Detmold in 1900. It then went to a Boston Firearms store later that same year. Sauer made the KnockAbout prior to 1904 when that model name was applied to the Francotte boxlock made for VL&D.

Whatever you've got, from the sounds of it you've got a good gun at a good price.

TT;
I have one of these guns SN 87,934. Mine too has the 70 stamped in the extractor face for the 2 3/4" chambers. I paid considerably less for mine, BUT, the entire forend assembly was missing. Mine also had a raised cheek piece which is leather covered. The leather is torn & partly loose. Beneath it is what appears to be a slab of cork inlet into the comb & covered with the leather. Although the plates have the general appearence of a bar action, it is indeed a back action lockwork. I was rather impressed by the sear design. The sear mounts vertically with the lower leg being pushed forward by the front surface of the trigger blade. The upper leg has the sear on its end engaging the hammer on its outer periphery @ maximum possible distance from its pin. The sear pivot is thus very near centrally located & while it does not have intercepting sears it would seem from its design to be highly resistant to a jar off. Considering the condition you state for your gun I would think it most likely you got a lot of gun for your money.
The 2 3/4" shell was I think quite popular for both Waterfowl & Trap guns. Considering the weights of both yours & mine being 7½lbs + I am not at all surprized at the 2 3/4" chambers. I have seen these Sauer/VL&D guns advertized in a "Game Gun" wt of around 6½lbs. Don't recall if chamber length was stated or not, but quite possibly they may have been 2 5/8"

I have an 1896 version with 26" barrels and a delightful 6 pounds even. Lots of case colors, too.

Thanks, guys, for all your comments. I always feel better when Miller gives a thumbs-up. Great shipping history, Bob. Where'd you get those details? I really like the way this gun has no cheek piece or sling swivels (nothing wrong with either, just not my thing). I need to get the barrels measured, but my gut tells me they have not been altered, even though the bores are clean as a whistle. My only complaint is that it's rather heavy.

Obviously it has a later pad, and I'd like to replace it with something more "period." What do you think ... a Silvers-type solid pad faced with leather? Also, given the apparently fine condition of the barrels, the very solid wood, and the weight overall, just how much should I be able ask of this gun in the way of ammo? (I realize no one can make any guarantees, even after a thorough checkup ... I'm just asking for general thoughts based on a few optimistic assumptions.) Thanks. TT

Don't know exactly, but we could start as follows. The Sauer name probably has Brand Value level four (BV4 - lesser known or valued Continental names) as I don't think it would have value as would BV3 names like Lebeau, Bury, Francotte, Brancquart,or Masuqelier. The gun sounds like an Original Quality grade five (OQ5 - 1/3 engraved SLNE). Current Condition level sounds like "significant use" which would be level three(CC3). BV4-OQ5-CC3 = $1575.

The gun sounds very typical of the general purpose "duck gun" of this time frame. Clearly neither a game gun (think upland) nor a heavy wildfowler. I'd recommend light loads at low velocity and low pressure just to honor the old wood.

My Sauer Knockabout is a 16 with 26" barrels imported by VL&D, weighs 5 3/4 lbs. Open pistol grip (POW), also a non ejector sidelock.

I liked your last sentence because when I read the original post and later the mention of weight it was my thought also. My 16ga Sauer Model is a bit heavy but just right for the blind with one-ounce loads. I do not have a discriminating eye for doubles but my Sauer seems a tad better fit-finish-engraving than my mid-grade 12ga Francotte.

It's not a 16 but a 12; This Sauer Knockabout is something. Enter number 9023112 on AA to see it.

On this gun it shows 13/L on the flat. Is that some kind of date?