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Forums10
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,058 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,058 Likes: 57 |
Once in a while when discussing blown guns, the prospect of a primer in the powder charge is mentioned. I've always wondered HOW such a thing could happen... I just found a way.
Equipment: MEC Grabber 761R circa 1980. Alliant Promo. Fiocchi 616.
While loading some of my first batch of Promo loaded shells, I was weighing charges frequently for consistancy. Operator error (inattention, distraction, old age, lack of intelligence, whatever) resulted in me cycling the press with no shell in station number 2.
Powder dropped of course, but no primer was visible. I 'recovered' from this event in my usual way, namely undo the primer feed chain, catch the next charge of shot in an empty shell, lock the bar to the left, and clear out the shells under construction so as to provide a clear loader for the cleanup.
On the second cycle of the press, the primer appeared. It had been stuck in the powder drop tube, held there by powder packed around it.
This was something of an attention getter.
The 'what if' is obvious.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
Yup, 'Ol Murphy' is always around ....!
Best,
Doug
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Great information Jonesy and thanks for the heads up!! When reloading you're always thinking how something like this could possibly happen, yet it does. And regardless if it ONLY happens once in a million shells that is one to many.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 614 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 614 Likes: 1 |
I wonder how much more pressure is developed with the primer in the powder? I have not heard of this causing a barrel to blow,so I'm curious.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 572
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 572 |
Thanks for the heads up. I try to watch the primer go into the rotating tabel but not all the time. I will check closer from not on.
Regards, Gordon
Our Dogs make our lives better
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,800 Likes: 567 |
I think that the proper test gun for primer in powder has to be a K80. They seem to be always blowing up according to posts over at trapshooters.com bbs. .
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,058 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,058 Likes: 57 |
Just to clarify what the idiot (me) did... since my writing is isn't all that clear...
I forgot to feed the thing a shell, and didn't catch the mistake until cycling the press with a vacant second station. That station primes and drops powder.
The key point, and the learning experience here, is that if you do that the powder drop tube can pick up the primer that was waiting there to be seated in the shell you forgot feed it. It's out of sight in the tube, jammed there by the powder that was dumped and it could very well make it into your next load.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
Shotgun, you do yourself an injustice to suggest that you were muddle-headed. You apparently knew to look for "the" primer despite the fact that there would be "a" primer atop the mess or jammed nearby in the index plate after it advanced. Not everyone would notice the presto-chango-whereditgoto after the aggro of the spill. And that Promo is pretty thick salami so might well get a grip on both primer and reprime/drop tube. Thanks for the headsup.
jack
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,227 |
I wonder how much more pressure is developed with the primer in the powder? I have not heard of this causing a barrel to blow,so I'm curious. I wonder, too. But if you look hard enough in the published data, you can find instances of a simple primer change resulting in a peak pressure increase of 3,000 psi. Add in the unknown effect of primer ignites powder ignites second primer and I wouldn't be surprised if it were greater than that.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
The change in chamber pressure with primer change is due to the powder sensitivity to faster ignition from a hotter primer, not from the primer's addition to the powder gas. Nitro powder burn rate increases dramatically with increasing pressure. A "hot" primer gets the powder going faster which ups chamber pressure initially which ups powder burn rate.
Lacking data, I doubt that a stray primer in the powder would burst a barrel. Does anyone have actual pressure barrel data?
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