doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Whippy little guns..............

I think the issue here is that many of us use skeet for its original intended purpose, which is practice for hunting--especially upland hunting. (It was invented as off-season practice by a bunch of New England grouse hunters.) We're using our hunting guns, calling for the birds dismounted (to practice the mount), etc. Sustained lead works well when you know the distance to the target, which never changes in skeet. It's more problematic in the field on live birds, where every shot is at a different distance and offers a different angle. "You need X feet at Station 4" only works when you're shooting a Station 4 bird--or if you're lucky enough to get a gamebird that flies just like a Station 4 bird.

And many very talented field shooters use sustained lead and very short moves to the bird rather than the slipshod swing through method used by inexperienced shooters, both at skeet and many birds in the field. As we return to the subject of this thread, sustained lead makes the use of a light gun much more controlled than the swing through method.

Much wisdom above in what eightbore has said. I shoot a MX-8, 31 1/2" in the main events, prelims and side games at tournaments. Sometime during the day on Friday I will pause to shoot the 20 ga. with a SP II, a gun with vast handling differences than the MX-8, and my dove and quail gun. If I'm shooting well that day I'll shoot well with both guns, but I shoot a method that requires very short moves to the bird, like eightbore said. I call it ambush lead. The less gun movement with any gun the more control you have, but especially so with a lighter and quicker handling gun.

Lest any naysayers say it won't work for game, I beg to differ. It works for pre-mounting as I shoot sporting, and it works for low gun as I shoot game. The muzzle is delivered to the "ambush point" during the mount on live game, then the very short move to establish lead is made.

"...sustained lead makes the use of a light gun much more controlled than the swing through method. "

No arguement from me here. I totally agree. But the quail rarely cooperate, where I hunt, to allow for enough of a shooting window for a sustained lead. Hence the result, low percentage shots, low take, high amount of fun. When I shoot dove, sustained works for me and my light, whippy guns or heavy guns alike. But I can't call what happens with the quail in the steep hills and thick cover where I hunt; sustained lead, short or otherwise.

Jimmy you should have let me know that you needed a good Remington 20. I have several of the standard weight 20's with decent high comb stocks that you would be right at home shooting. In fact I think one still has all the extra weight so it weigh about what my tube set weighs. Think 9 pounds of smooth swing that never feels whipp♠y or whimpy.

Yup, KY Jon still has his skeet guns from the old days, just as I do. Stan understands the "insert the gun ahead of the quail" system. Chuck should understand what the "insert the gun" is about if he gives it some thought. Chuck, you don't decide where to insert the muzzle until you see the bird in the air. When you see the bird, you insert the muzzle slightly ahead of the bird as you complete the mount, pull the trigger when everything looks right. That is usually about a fifth of a second after you have completed the mount. There is no swing to speak of, light gun or heavy.

I understand the "whippy" comment relative to a Rem 870 20G at skeet as I have one and have had similar experiences. I did correct the "problem" with a screw on magazine weight that significantly improves the gun movement in a controlled target game like skeet. With this change, I can usually shoot this gun about the same as one of my target guns which weigh considerably more. Regardless of the gun that I shoot at skeet, I always shoot low gun and do typically use a rapid swing through with very short gun movement - sort of the "ambush lead" discussed earlier.
Z

"That is usually about a fifth of a second after you have completed the mount."

Sounds about right when the quail give me a plenty of time, otherwise it's about a 1/100th of a second. LOL... And that's standing with one foot on the side of a 60 degree razorback hill with oak brush all around.

eightbore: Pardon my ignorance, but please explain these terms.

"High average skeet, as well as high average quail, is better shot with long hold points, sustained lead, and short moves to the bird."

I understand the concept of sustained lead, but what are "long hold points" and "short moves to the bird"? Thanks! TT

The "long hold point" refers to an experienced bird hunter who parks the muzzle of the unmounted gun out where he thinks the bird will fly. Inexperienced bird hunters are prone to a "short hold point" near the head of the pointing dog. Inserting the muzzle of the gun just ahead of the bird on the mount allows for a "short move to the bird". This is the sustained lead method used by high average International Skeet competitors also. My question to the poster who describes his fast swing through method is "Why would you intentionally insert the muzzle behind the bird when you could insert the muzzle in front of the bird??"