doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Whippy little guns..............

Ahhhh, I see what I've been doing wrong...no pointing dog. Years of walked up quail with birds flushing here a yonder. Now I have a flushing dog and it's often still a surprize when a quail flushes. Since often a flush is a surprize, combinations of all swing methods happen. Still, it's the most fun I've had with my clothes on. I've shot a few quail over a pointing dog and I can see where our discussion diverged.

Inserting the muzzle ahead of the bird sounds a whole lot like spot shooting to me. But then I try to point in the general direction of the bird, rather than the general direction of my pointing dog's head. The bird's usually somewhat higher than the dog, and I'm sure the dog appreciates my caution.

The problem with sustained lead while hunting is that, unlike on the skeet field, you don't know how far away the target is. Hence, you don't know how far you're leading. That can be especially problematic when you have a bird that's significantly different in size (like a pheasant) from the clay birds you're used to shooting. It should work somewhat better with quail, which are similar in size to a clay bird, although there's still the distance factor to deal with. But a 40 yard rooster is going to look about the same size as a 20 yard quail, and is likely to give one trouble figuring out what 3 or 4 feet of lead, or whatever it is, actually looks like.

The advantage of a quick swing-through, which doesn't take nearly as long as some might think, is that you know one thing for sure: your gun is moving faster than the bird. Otherwise, you could not catch it and swing through it. The result is built-in lead, plus the fact you're swinging the gun to establish it. You insert in front of the bird and you can end up stopping because you haven't yet started your swing, and the lead looks right.

The one problem with swing through and a light gun is that light guns start fast and stop fast. Easier to keep a heavy gun moving. That being said, if you shoot enough with light guns, you overcome the tendency to stop.

Larry, I don't think we worry much about "lead in feet or inches" when shooting game birds. Chuck's point about using whatever method is at hand is a good one. No, we don't always use our preferred method of addressing a bird, but it is smart to have a preferred method in your quiver.

I consider myself a "LOOOONG" way from an expert shot, but will say my sucess ratio increased dramatically when I learned the "Swing Through" method Larry described for hunting many years back & has served me rather well since. I will also note it is the method prescribed my many "Experts", its not just a method of beginners.

Trap is a straight swing-through game. You simply come up from behind the target, right up it's wake (pretend it leaves a contrail like an airplane) and shoot as you pass. The follow through establishes the lead. This does have applications in the field.

I use different techniques at skeet depending on which target I'm shooting and which gun I'm playing with. I have only two actual 'skeet' guns, the others are all field guns of various weights and guages. When shooting field gun skeet, I score best with swing through. It requires minimum thought, and besides it's fun.

Last week I was able to demonstrate four techniques of shotgun shooting to a new shooter. On station five, I started with a sustained lead tracking ahead all across the field, then did the sweep through trick, an 'insertion' (pull away), and finally something called a 'collapsing lead' which a friend taught me after paying an instructor $200 to learn it. It involves intercepting the target from a vertical swing or from the opposite direction of the flight path. Very interesting to experiment with and useful on chandelles and battue targets. I imagine it might work pretty well on decoying ducks.

There is no 'correct' way. The only unchanging thing is that somehow you need to put your pattern where the target will BE, not where it IS.

"Whatever works" is always a good solution in the field. And Jones, your point is well taken: Shoot where the bird is, you're going to miss. Unless maybe you prefer taking grouse out of trees or off the road, in "pre-flight" status.

Keeping my head on the stock, and my eyes on the target works pretty well, I've found.......many, many times.

Too much analysis of our given eye-hand coordination can short-circuit the process.

Rarely do two individuals see properly led targets/birds exactly alike. FWlittleIW, I probably use sust. lead most in the field. I probably take at least 25% of my woodcock on the way down using sustained - b/c they've stopped juking by then. For stuff over 40 yds I use alot of unmounted gun speed with pull away, or a queer variation where I look way ahead immediately before triggering. If there's one bird I tend to shoot swing-through, its grouse. Just can't ever seem to start in front of them. And I never use a diminishing lead technique on anything. I'm not smart enough to learn how, I suspect.

I'm with those who use a farther hold point and a more compressed swing when using a lightweight. Nothing chews me up worse than trying to execute a roundhouse swing with a light gun. One of the biggest errors I could make with a light gun is to think I ought to take targets quicker b/c the gun is lighter. The reverse is more like it. I don't particularly enjoy shooting my tube sets, but I hit targets alot faster with them. As others have noted, light guns require more finesse (read as "corrections"). This translates as a need for greater elapsed time from seeing bird to being ready to trigger a shot. Well, for me, anyway.

Sam

From skeet stations 3, 4, and 5, shooting with a low gun, I stick the barrel about 2-1/2 feet ahead of the bird and just after the gun hits my shoulder I pull the trigger. This didn't come naturally to me and took a lot of practice. It is really quick.

From stations 2 and 7 I shoot swing through on the departing bird, sustained lead on the incoming bird.

Station 8 - cover up the bird with the end of the barrels and pull the trigger.

Best,

Mike

[quote=L. Brown]The problem with sustained lead while hunting is that, unlike on the skeet field, you don't know how far away the target is. Hence, you don't know how far you're leading.[quote]

The subconscious does know the distance, if the shooter has a lot of experience at varying ranges, just as it knows what lead is required for it. Obviously no one can calculate all this when a bird flushes, or a dove breaks over the treetops, but fortunately for experienced shooters, we don't have to. The subconscious does it for us amazingly well.

There are also many "Experts" who ascribe to the method eightbore and I describe. Among them are Bill McGuire and Jon Kruger. Both have been accused for years of "spot shooting", but they both will describe what I did as their method. Of course this isn't the best for ALL presentations, but for most of them it works beautifully. I shoot with both occasionally, and can say that Jon is the best on wild birds I've ever known of. I'll bet the farm on him against anybody on wild birds, even though his best known forte is sporting.