doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Re-jointing actions by Ken Eversull

OK. But wouldn't it be easier to replace the pin?

It sounds like more work for a repair that will not be as well done.

And how much money are you going to save?

I'm not going to skimp just to save $500 - especially not on a real nice double.

OWD

No, replacing the pin is not as easy as it sounds, there's alot more involved than just popping the old pin out and pushing a new one in. Fitting, finishing, engraving, etc. And have you ever seen any of the work done by Mr. Eversull? I doubt you could even tell that there was any work done at all. His work is as good as it gets.
The others who posted earlier made a good point...read carefully.....most of the time that a double is loose, its nothing to do with the pin, rather the locking bolt or the hook.


Dustin

You make the repair that is called for, based on the value of the gun to you. Unless you make the choice for non-financial concerns.
I wouldn't restock a fencepost clunker, and I wouldn't glue a shim into a Purdey.

Yes, I know what it takes to replace a pin. I'm 100% aware of what's involved - from a Parker to a Boss.

But pulling out a pin and welding it up to make it like new sounds like a lot more work to me. And it sounds like it will never be as good as a new, properly fitted pin.

And as I understand it, a gun that is "off the face" has to fixed by addressing the pin/hook, bbl/breachface relationship.

I may be mistaken, but I think if you're messing with the bolt, the gun is "loose on the action." I don't see how you can address it and change pin/hook, bbl/breachface relationship.

Clapper - I agree with you 100%. But I think it's a mistake to think a shim/welding job is as good, or will last as long, as a properly replaced pin.

Thanks

OWD

Metallurgically, it is probably better. The filler rod /base metal junction is very likely a better alloy than the original part that wore. I can really nerd out for you if you want.
Ultimately, what power loop do you wish to use as the final arbiter? It is the last file stroke that makes a best gun.
I have not had good luck with matching engraving. There just aren't that many people that can imitate Van Gogh, or DaVinci's brush stroke. I look at the finished product, not just clearances.
Nothing personal toward resident engravers. But I save engraving at almost all cost.

Clapper/Zapper-

My problem isn't with adding metal, it's adding it in a way that achieves a square fit with the hook. Welding up a pin so that it's as round as a new one sounds like a lot of work.

Is it?

Why not replace the original pin with one made out of a better grade of metal? Wouldn't that be easier, and better, overall?

The engraving issue is case by case. Most Holland-style sidelocks have endcaps covering the hinge pins. Replacing the pin does not affect the covers at all.

On a Boss or Purdey, the engraving on the pin is usually pretty minimal and easy to replace.

OWD

OWD is totally correct in this matter. Best is best. As an aside, although I've never done it, I've wondered at the possibility of taking about .020" off the pin, reducing it's diameter .040" and then fitting a hard steel sleeve over the pin. The machining work would be less tricky. Making a new pin, if you want perfection, is very time consuming. You want the threads to be as tight as possible, likewise the cap and while the old pin is a guide, chances are good that it wasn't perfectly fitted to begin with. You want your new one to be better. Lastly you have to drill and tap for the screw that goes in from the knuckle and this is a blind hole. If it's an older Brit gun all the threads will be Whitworth, another "pita".

If I remember correctly, Miller (2-piper) refits pins with 100% contact, at perfect perpendicularity, just because he wants to. In one of those discussions, it was pointed out that neither the pin, or the hook maintains 360 degrees of bearing, and so, perfect cylindricity isn't functionally necessary. The joint between hook and pin is no longer concentric when one or other is worn. They both will need attention if you change the pin. They still won't match. The joint tends to wear in an elongated fashion, because we fire right barrel first, and the joint twists.
I have never seen a rule that said material could only be removed, never added. I believe in almost all cases, material can be added, and then the joint fitted, with less work than setting up to grind surfaces, and draw bore holes. In my view, the repair just needs to end up as invisible as I want.
With the limited use most of these guns see in their second incarnation, I don't think a head to head exhaustive test will ever occur.
They are meant to be used, and refreshing done. The American collector marketplace differs from the European in this regard.
The craftsmen that are devoted to these almost microscopic repairs are working to much finer tolerances than the originators.

The pin is case hardened the hook is not. Most of the ware happens to the hook. Done properly a built up hook repair can result in an undetectable repair with full contact between the barrels and the breach face.

It is not the only way and may not be proper in all cases but if the hook is worn it is less invasive and less expensive.

Oddly, I agree with the 2 professional gunsmiths, CJO and Mark. Done properly there is nothing wrong with tigging the hook. My preference is to build a new pin, but as others have pointed out, it is not always cost effective. I try to match the best repair to the guns value. Most Birmingham boxlocks do not warrant a new pin, a Win 21 or a better grade sidelock, sure. It really comes down to what the customer wishes to spend in the end, after all, they are the one paying the bill.
Steve