doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com German Drilling...gold inlaid

Super info, thanks boys. Lets try these pics. I took them in a hurry in the trunk of a car.
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Marshfellow:

Can you tell me if the interesting marks near the forend lug is a script "FH"? It it a pre-1910, although there are exceptions and plug gauge stamps like 67/49(0.410") are sometimes found later, longarm sourced from Zella-Mehlis(Zella St. Blasii or Mehlis at the time) as the rifled tube which experience proof with a solid projectile was sourced as a blank from the Schilling Forge(or choose the Schillings of Suhl if you wish) and Max Moller of Zella-Mehlis(Zella St. Blasii or Mehlis) was the rifled tube maker. I think the initials to be "MM" but they would be "WW". Both scattergun tubes experienced proof with shot and are choked. And 16(65mm) is the correct cartridge. Can you tell me if there were initials on the left side read of the frame? It looks like a Heym sourced frame and Franz Heym, Not Friedrich Wilhelm Heym, could have done the fitting.

Interesting device on the right side of the head of the stock(rifle selector?). I've seen a mechanism in that location on a Teschner-Collath drilling but it was some sort of barrel lock.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

added a couple of more pics

I may have missed the additional pics, so where might they be? I was hoping by now you had performed a chamber cast and confirmed the calibre was in the 10.75mm range and a 10.75X65R Collath. But I believe there's a wide girth in the 67/49 diameter.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I missed this post, so the frame was more than likely sourced from Heym.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey, here's the other two...perhaps you'll see a clue

Werner von Braun's drilling?

That is a beauty.

I can't say Wernher von Braun of Myrzysk brought it to Huntsville, AL, but I'm curious if it was for the Russian market. I think this example to be one of many of a higher end piece similar to those retailed in Berlin, where the money and connection were, to dukes, kings, princes and the like but totally sourced from the craftsmen of Suhl. The unadulterated truth on the matter is that the firms, not fellas as the fellas with the appointments to supply the courts were long since passed, were the connections to the money men. I think this to be a totally Heym made piece, possibly not by Friedrich Wilhelm Heym, but by his relatives Conrad Heym(CH), who began in the mid 1870s, and Franz Heym(FH-script) was was active up till just past WWI, but I haven't searched for any connection between Fritz Heym and tube making but he could have performed the final fitting to the action. Conrad Heym cannot be found as a gunsmith in the 1840s and should have been active up to WWI, but he, Fritz and Wilhelm, along with other Heyms were decendents of:

Georg Adam Heym, master stocker?
Gottgetreu Heym, master gunsmith
Gottlieb Heym, master gunsmith
Gottlieb Heym(Jr.?), gunsmith
Wilhelm Heym, gunmsith

I haven't traced the lineage but I just might have a gander.

"16" must have been an assembly number and I'm curious what the critter is on the right side of the frame near the standing breech. Is it another Imperial Eagle?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I failed to note that D.R.P. 60215 was the infamous Heym drilling patent of May 24th, 1891 which up to 1923 was in place for 15 years so it was made between 1891 and 1906? Heinrich Leue was alive during about 1/2 of the period but I seriouly doubt he added anything to the piece.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here is either more info on Heinrich Barella or more questions in an attempt to indirectly acquire info on Heinrich Leue.
Sources give Heinrich Barella as being born in 1819 in Soest, Germany( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soest,_Germany ) and died in Berlin in 1893. I think these dates to be correct and would greatly appreciate any date info from Stockel on Heinrich Barella. Additional info would aide in reconciling a name/date issue in Soest, Germany. Apparently Soest has been inhabited by Barellas from some time and even today a Waffen Barella owned by G. Kramer is a Sauer dealer in Soest-Ostönnen Germany can be found(6th one down):
http://www.sig-sauer.de/index.php?id=567...Hash=108588d141 .
But the quandary on Heinrich is that on January 3rd 1819 in Soest, Germany, a Friedrich Wilhelm Barrella was born to Anton Barella and Anna Gertrud Simon Barella. Then on June 2nd 1822 a Heinrich Philipp Johannes Barella was born to Anton and Anna Gertrud Barella. Since Friedrich Wilhelm’s brother has 3 names and considering the 1819 date, which for now I think to be correct for Heinrich Barella; therefore, I think his full name to be Heinrich Friedrich Wilhelm Barella. The other possibility is that his name is Heinrich Philipp Johannes Barella and his birth date to be June 2nd 1822.

He must have received his master gunsmith sheep skin prior to 1844, in the early 1840s, as in 1844 he founded his firm H. Barella Gewehrfabrik in Magdeburg, Germany. Being purely conjecture on my part, I think in the late 1840s or early 1850s Heinrich married a Leue if he was the uncle to Heinrich Leue as I can’t locate Heinrich Barella having a sister born in Soest. But the possibility exists.

I don’t know the date or any more info as the scanned transcript where Heinrich Barella was an expert witness in the Trial of Soghomon Tehlirian is quite possibly quite lengthy and difficult to navigate:
http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=The_Trial_of_Soghomon_Tehlirian .


The following is something of a stretch but does have some merit to it. On June 14th, 1860 the steamer Schiller(immigrant transport) left Germany headed to Baltimore with a Wilhelmine Leue of 51 years, a Heinrich Leue(“Schuhmacher” but I think it to be a poor understanding of buchsenmacher) of 24 years, a Johanne Leue of 20 years, a Minna Leue of 18 years and a Marie Leue of 16 years all from Harrenburg(I think it to be a poor understanding of Herrenberg) all headed to St. Louis, Missouri. The probability exits for another fella born in Germany in late 1837 with the same name. If it was the same Heinrich Leue, he had to return to Germany relatively soon as Leue & Timpe were in fully swing by 1866. There is a site with a Leue & Timpe example: http://www.horstheld.com/0-leue.htm , which notes that Heinrich Leue was a supplier to the Prussian Court. And last there is a 1918 example of Heinrich Leue in “The Double Gun Journal” Volume 20, Issue 2 Summer 2009 as a scoped falling block type in 8X57IR with Barrel address:
“WAFFENFABRIK LEUE & CO. BERLIN CHARLOT-TENBURG”
“LIEFERANTEN FUR DIE DEUTSCHE ARMEE & MARINE”

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse