doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Doubling Advice

Gentlemen, your sage advice please..... In July of this year I stumbled across a very sweet deal on an AYA #2 round body in 12. The gun had very little use and was in excellent condition. As I shot point of impact tests, patterned clay loads, shot rounds of skeet and sporting clays, and chased the season's first grouse I patted myself on the back for jumping on the bargain. Then came time for a little more serious load in pursuit of the wily pheasant. I was quite surprised as I pulled the forward trigger on the first flush when both barrels went off. The bird was very dead, so was my shoulder. Further testing showed that loads at or above 1.25 oz/3 drams/1300fps resulted in similar doubling. I suspect sear/trigger issues above my level of expertise. So.....I understand Jack Rowe is the domestic expert in such matters with the AYAs. Any other good gunsmith recommendations that have worked out for you? Any other considerations relative to the problem I should be exploring before sending it in? Any help would be much appreciated.

Birdbuster,

Sorry I don't have any advice for you but I will share my experience. Maybe it can lessen your headache knowing others share your grief.

Like you, I thought I got a good deal on a high grade shotgun (Beretta ASE). The price I paid for the gun is about what the barrels are going for alone. Turns out the gun doubles when it feels like it. It does not seem to be restricted to payload. Sometimes it doubles with one-ounce loads and many times it does not double with "magnum" loads.

I called Beretta USA and they suggested that I send it to an specialist on the east coast. I sent him the gun and he "fixed" it and sent it back. I took it out and shot it and guess what? It doubled. I phoned the gunsmith and he said to send it back, which I did. He worked on it again and fixed it again (no charge this time, except for shipping). Guess what again? When I got it back it still doubled. I am now out the original cost to "fix" it and twice the cost of shipping both ways and insurance. I again called the "expert" and he told me he did all he could and that it did not double for him. We mutually agreed that I would not trouble him again.

I waited six months and called another Beretta expert. This one is also a factory authorized repair station and is located on the west coast. I talked to the gunsmith/owner on the phone and he told me the problem I described was something he was familar with and that he felt competent to work on. I sent him the gun. He kept the gun for a month and then called to say he was going to send it back unrepaired. He did not feel he had the expertise to do the job.

So, I am out three shipping/receiving charges, insurance, and the cost of the first "repair"-about $500 total. I discussed my problem with several members of this board and they suggested I send it to another expert, this one a member of the Custom Gunmakers Guild. I called this gentleman and was told he would look at it but he was about one-year backlogged. I did not send him the gun even though he came highly recommended.

Hopefully, my story will give you considerations to ponder. Please give us a follow-up post if you find a good trigger man.

I hope I do not offend anyone and I am suggesting this with the risk of doing just that but I have seen guns double that have soft butt pads and sensitive triggers. Is it possible the heavy loads cause the gun to "bounce" (for lack of a better word) on recoil so that your trigger finger involuntarily pulls the trigger without your direct knowledge?

I can see where a gun might double for one individual and not another if the gun was a single trigger(and my ASE is a single trigger)and the trigger/sear wasn't right. But, I think the gun shouldn't double regardless.

I agree with builder. I had this happen with a 12ga. Citori. I think that yor trigger finger involuntarily reacts when the recoil (with a heavy load) moves you and the gun.

You can give Dave Norin a call. He has repaired several sxs for me.
http://www.davenoringunmaker.com/


Pete

With a stout load such as this, be sure you have a good grip on the gun. Pull the buttstock back well into your shoulder, don't treat it like a delicate magic wand. A #2 AyA is generally considered a "field" gun, not necessarily designed for the heavy loads you are using, not to mean it wouldn't digest them safely. Try a 3 dram 1 1/8 oz or lighter load and get a good hold on the gun, see if that stops the problem.

A gun should not double, period. IMO, suggesting that it's doubling because of some sort of bouncing from the recoil pad is going down the wrong trail. Birdbuster said it is a two trigger gun. Likely suspects are worn hammer notch or worn sear, sear being only partially engaged because of a wood problem. something along that line. Get it to a good 'smith who knows double guns.
Let us know how it works out.

A point of order.

Do these guns have intercepting sears? If so, surely they can not double unless the shooter actually squeezes the trigger?

Best in the New Year

birdbuster - Assuming that this is a sidelock,I have the identical gun and used to have the same problem. Have you noticed that after 125-200 rds, that the pins loosen and seem to be travelling to the center of the gun? The ends of the pins that were once flush, now seem recessed? I have has several gunsmiths look at this, but only one had the apparent solution.

There is a notch on the side place in which the sears are mounted ( I know I have the terminology wrong but the principle works). As the pins loosen this relationship of mechanism to notch loosens to the point that the mechanism is no longer in contact wo the notch -- its like not having a safety sear at all.

Pull the front and Wham it doubles.

All you need to do is to keep the pins snug against the side plate. I do this when I notice the pins travelling inward. Although since really sungging these down, the travel has lessened noticably. I have shot 200 rds in a row - no double, no travel. 50 more with very hot loads, just to see. All OK. Hope this helps.