doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Advice please about L.C. Smith double

What are the questions to ask the seller about this L.C. Smith double?

Also

Was this a field gun?

Which trigger is LOP be measured to and what is standard for someone who likes 14.5 to 14.75 in a single?

What does the serial number say about age and suitability for modern ammunition?

Is one bead normal?

What makes it "Trap grade"

Looks like a splinter not a beavertail

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=140090479

Thank you
Lou

Here you go Lou http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/buying.html

The sideplate engraving confirms it is a Trap grade (Field, Ideal, Trap, Specialty...) and it was made in 1914. I agree it looks like a splinter, and the BTFEs were not available until 1920.

I agree with Drew, it is a splinter. The LOP would be measured from the center line of the first trigger to the end of the butt. Most L.C. Smiths were 14-14 1/8" unless ordered different.
The ivory bead would be an option, either one or two.
Trap Grade's name is the engraving, on one side has a hunter in the field and the other side has a line of shooters at the line.
If refinished, it was a long time ago. I believe in looking at it that they are the original colors.Condition looks good, a few scratches on wood. Gun doesn't have any thing special about it, no ejectors or Hunter One-trigger and I believe it is at the very high end for price. Blue book states $2,000 in 95% condition.
I would want to know what the bores measure and what the chokes are.

This L C Smith TRAP GRADE SXS looks very good in the very few pictures that are posted with the ad. We need a lot more pictures to begin to make a judgment on the originality of this SXS. If you are planning on shooting this TRAP GRADE SXS in Vintager Events or LCSCA Events the DOUBLE TRIGGERS are a Big Plus and the lifters are better for actual shooting then ejectors. Single triggers and ejectors are just extra trouble and extra expense that you will rarely make use of. Good Shooting To You, Jent

All the aforeposted advice from brother "Smith-Onians" is right on the Money- The Trap grade is between the Ideal and the Specialty- this is a DT with extractors, std. 30" barrels- and all Smith 12 gauges were made with 2.75" long chambers, except the special orders and the Long Range versions-

I first check out the seller's rating, and this seller gets high marks- the top lever is to the right of the top tang centerline. This is a standard or R frame Smith, the locks look clean and no discernable cracks at the juncture of the stock jaws- a critical area for Smiths of any vintage.

Also looks like original black Buttplate and pitch line from heel to toe- The LOP is usually measured on a double triggered gun from the front trigger- center of the curvature of the trigger blade, to the dead center point of the buttstock, whether is has a plate, a recoil pad, or whatever-

The "Jentleman" from VA is also right about double triggers, I own and shoot 4 12 Gauge Smiths- all have double triggers and three of them have ejectors. I like the ejectors for hunting and the Two-Man team flurry clays events for speedy reloading, but I agree that ejectors can be "extras to go wrong" but those on my three Smiths have worked flawlessly for many many years.

Good luck, if you get a Smith, you will have the best sidelock side-by-side (unless you buy a Smith SBT that is) shotgun ever made in the US of A.. RWTF

Seller sent me an e-mail that the rib has a single bead at the front and no bead in the middle.

That's standard, and also tells me the seller is a good communicator. Any question(s) you ask of any seller of a shotgun on any of the gun auction sites should answer as he apparently did. His rating is very good as well. On my Smiths, at the muzzle on both the top rib and the bottom there is a "half-moon" milled out "notch" and the barrels are all to an even length- 28" or 30" right on the "dime"--I am guessing this Trap Grade is also uncut--

Trap Grade can be confusing- Winchester used Trap and Tournament Grades for their shotguns for many years, Trap does NOT always mean a 12 gauge used for the clays sport of Trapshooting- Case in point- a friend has a Trap Grade 20 gauge M21- DT, Ejectors, mfg. about 1938- 26" barrels chokes WS-1 and WS-2. Using this gun for 16 yard trapshooting would be like using a BIC lighter to braze cast iron-But it has Trap marked on the receiver bottom-

Also, and you most likely know this, but- one caution about Smiths- Always open and recock the gun before you remove the forearm and dis-assemble it. I keep my Smiths with the hammers let down on A-zoom snap caps in the gun safe. You can "dry-fire" a Smith if you like, but always use spring loaded snap caps, for the same reason(s) a boxer always hits a bag in training- resistance to the blow- Can you break a firing pin on a Smith if you don't use snap caps?? I don't know, I consider them cheap insurance against that, just as I consider the $ spent for a good quality gun case to be momney well spent.

Let us know how this possible Smith transaction develops. I am not looking to buy this gun, so I am a "backseat driver" here, but from what I saw in the fotos, it looks to be a good Smith.

Lou, the weight of those regular framed Smiths are all over the place but they are extremely strong and damn near bullet proof, especially with the double triggers. Price wise I don't know I thought the market was soft but that price reflects something different.

Lou:

I've been talking with Joe --(the seller)-- for over a week about this gun....the stock has some serious damage to the right side which is not shown in the listing---serious dents, I have a picture from Joe....also the gun is on consignment and the actual owner has some ATF issues in Jersey.....
Joe is firm at 2k and IMO that price is too high for the condition...FWIW.....if you are serious, suggest you call Joe on the phone.....

Top price = Top condition....not the other way around......

Your informative reply verifies my old school approach- unless I know the seller personally, I want to see the gun with open inspection and a full refund guarantee in writing- I don't know if the stock damage (hidden?) in his fotos can be repaired, but I agree that if he is firm at his 2K (his right of course) and the possible BATF situation, there are a fair number of good 12 gauge Smiths on the market, and my advice (even though you didn't really ask me for it) would be to walk away quickly and keep your gun fund intact-and let this one be "deep sixed"--