doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com So is it 6 of one ..........

Consumer products are very confusing as to source and price does make a difference to most people. However, we have a bigger problem. We are raising children that would rather join the Chinese Army than the U.S.Army. We are raising children that would rather pay taxes to the Chinese Government than our own government. Get your children and your public schools back, then worry about sneakers.

All this talk, and some of you are shooting guns/rifles from unfriendly times and unfriendly nations.
What 'bout that?

How about the 1960-70's Browning rifles? The guns were marketed by Browning in Utah but made by FN in Leige. Anyone think they were substandard, or complain they should have been made in the US because they were taking American jobs? How about the Krupp tubes used on pre-WW1 Foxes and other higher end guns? Anyone question them? Or how about the Holland & Holland shotgun used by a gent I see on the sporting courses regularly. He bought it from the H&H US office, but it was made in the U.K.? Complaints anyone? Hardly.

I think in a lot of cases the root cause is an attitude of superiority by some of the US citizens. A lot of the products we see advertised are made by people and in countries that are viewed by some as being "lesser" in some respects. If the gun you see advertised is made by the Germans at the old Krupp factory, that is just fine; but if its made by Russkies working for Baikal at Izhevsk, well let's think about it. Then again, if the gun is made by (fill in your slang term) at the Yong Fo factory in Asia, well it's got to be garbage.

The bottom line is we all have choices on the stuff we buy. If I want a great american made hunting jacket, I'll buy a Filson on line. On the other hand if I want a good jacket at a reasonable price, I'll do Cabelas or I'll drive down to Gander Mountain to check out their imports. That is... driving in my Toyota 4 Runner made in Japan. 19.8 mpg with a 32 valve V8. About 48,000 miles and no problems. Our previous SUV was a Chevy. It made it to 6,000 miles before the tranny stopped working in reverse. Then the switch for low range 4WD broke. Then the tailights stopped working. The front brake pads were almost worn off within 1 year. Oh, did I tell you the new tranny was machined wrong and the oil leak couldn't be stopped until replacement tranny #2 was installed? ~14 mpg with an in line 6 cylinder. I traded it off when it was 1 year old, took a beating so to speak, and never looked back..... Silvers

That's too bad. I have a Ford Ranger 4x4 I bought new and has just turned 200,000 miles with nary a problem. It has been simply awesome, which is why I haven't traded it in. Still has the original clutch, although it's now due for replacement. Only one thing went wrong other than normal maintenance, and that was the hubs, through some strenuous off road use. I will put its reliability up against anything, but I'm aware that not all its parts are made in the U.S.

As for guns, I prefer the classics and don't get too excited about new guns, but if I were to buy one, I would prefer to buy American if I could. An RBL in 16ga might float my boat, but I won't be selling my Lefever to afford it either. When it comes right down to it, I would actually prefer to spend the $3k on upgrading the Lefever.

Unfortunately, until we change the corporate culture, which most of us belong to through our retirement accounts, from short term bottom line to one of National best interest the options are only going to get worse for us. I think the dumbest thing we do is tax corporations including property taxes on their facilities. Free industry from the requirement to negotiate our tax structures and let them work. We can get the taxes needed from sales taxes and income taxes after the manufacturers have paid wages and dividends.

My son just returned from a trip to Mexico where he was hiring additional planning staff (mostly clerical types) because his corporation ordered a significant budget cut. By laying off the same type workers here and hiring them in Mexico, the budget was met and the job gets done. That is short term bottom line thinking which just cost the USA jobs for the lower middle class. His company is a very large well know manufacturer of high tech equipment and has a world wide network of plants. It all used to get done here with very well paying jobs. Wouldn't surprise him to be sent out to recruit and train his own lower priced replacement one of these days.

I'd rather push a Chevy . . . ? Actually, I'm a lot happier that Gregsy's pushin one so I don't have to. I'm sure if we want all our shaft mining, foundry casting, pan enameling, hide tanning jobs back, there'll be some way we can eventually accomplish that. Anyway, scratch a free trader and you'll find a protectionist, Daddy used to say. Never said what you get when you scratch a provocateur.

jack

It depends on what I am buying and what the intended purpose is for. I live in Southeast Michigan. "Motor capital of the world". I buy american vehicles because many of my neighbor's and our general economy in this area rely on it. But to someone's point the Ford Explorers that I have bought in recent years are not 100% American made. They may be "American" built but not American made.

As for the issue with Chinese products. It is very similar to the Japenese issues of the 70's and 80's. If I am buying a product that is a comodity I have no problem with Chinese for a better price. Some of the quality is as good or better, other is suspect at best. I could say the same for some of the American made products as well. We hammer the "big box" stores, one in particular, but it was good ole American Ingenuity that developed this shopping concept. It seems that Joe and Sue Public have voted with their pocket book and this concept is winning.

What I love to see is an American that figures out the marketing approach or niche to make things work for the product they developed/produced/sold. That is what drives competition. In this part of the country we have gotten in our own way for paying outlandish wages to both the blue collar and white collar workers along with health benefits that are better than almost any other industry. Then we wonder why we can't compete with what is built overseas on a per vehicle basis. "Let the responses begin" Merry Christmas to all!

Don't forget to buy American reloading components,Powder,primers etc. Put our ammo makers out of business and we will have real problems in the future. In other words don't become addicted to the cheap stuff that they are starting to bring in. If you deserve a good living with benefits so do other Americans that work.

Buying Chinese products is not exactly the same thing as buying Japanese products. Japan is (and at all times post war was) an ally and a democracy. China is not our friend and with the Western capital we are dumping into that country, China will become a greater threat to our economy and our security. However, one cannot live in the United States, wear cloths and buy electronics and not buy Chinese made goods.

Why our American arms manufacturers can't seem to use technology (CNC, MIM and etc.) to produce competitive firearms in the world and US markets is a mystery to me. I don't think the labor costs are so much to blame as the executives and "captains of US industry" who are thinking only of short-term profits and who refuse to invest capital in the use of this technology. It is better for business, our economy and our national security to make these investments in technology and thereby even if they employ fewer US workers at least US workers are being employed rather than a host of overseas "talent" who are paid slave wages.

True, a lot of companies have come from overseas to produce firearms in the US (Walther, Sig, FN and Beretta for example). That does nothing but support my contention that the US companies are short sighted and poorly managed. From a national defense standpoint, however, US companies should be the only companies allowed to manufacture weapons for our armed forces (not FN made M-16s and not Beretta made pistols)- but in this day and age of multi-national corporations, just what is a US company?

I think, perhaps wrongly, that we tend to buy quality 'to a point' and that point is when it becomes painful or when we are uneducated & don't know how to distinguish difs. Eightbore hit the nail on the head in some very real respects.

Nevertheless, Chinese goods represent more than only the Chinese making money on the transactions .. sellers on this end and buyers too get what they pay for whether it be a profit or a product. Inflation IS alive and quite well, thank you. Alas that is another subject, tho much more germane to this one than many may realize.

Good value [design & quality of execution] are what ultimately has the best return on investment. Markets tend bear that out.

Politics is economicaly driven irrespective of the form of government. There is a tendency to get quality of life issues confused with economic ones. Related? Yes. Mutually exclusive? No. But with the proviso that you won't be buying many bespoke pairs without some economic means at hand. OTOH, hundred dollar sneakers says something about the current global value system that is more deafening than not wearing hearing protection when shooting. Fashion above substance. Perhaps it has always been so. Looking through what were thot to be case colored glasses from other places .. until the lenses get scratched.