doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sculpting a M-21

I just measured the two. Both the Parker and the 21 are about 2 5/8" from the breech face to the hinge pin. However, the Winchester action front to rear is 3/8" longer than the Parker at 4 3/8".

That just a flat side 21 with rounded fences. Winchester made them that if that is what you wanted.

Personally, I like the so called "spears" on the frame better and I like the rounded fences better.

Someone on this site had scalloped the rear of the receiver a few years ago. And I am thinking there was an article in one of the magazines with it. But I wouldn't want to round the spear of the receiver. It would make it look too much like a Kreighoff or maybe an old Ithaca. The way it is, makes it look more like the Fox and I always liked that look. John Olin liked the sides on the 21. It gave an engraver a platform for engraving a dog or some type of an animal on it. Which is why he didn't want to shave the sides of the receiver. But, they eventually did, anyway.

Jeff, I always thought the "spears" on the Winchester frame were not very well done. Just my taste. Here's what I had Sam Welch do to the spears. Maybe a bit more like the Fox.

I reshaped a 16 many years ago, brought it down to 6 1/4 lb. as I remember, eliminating the "spears" and semi-rounded the action body. Stocked with good English walnut, straight grip. Unfortunately that was in the days of film and I have no digital images...
Turned out pretty fair, there is a photo of it in Fine Gunmaking: Double Shotguns with a dead pheasant.
Nice gun that handled nicely. It lives in Atlanta...
Best,
Steve

Jeff, where did the picture of the Jaeger 21 come from? It appears to be a standard round frame 21 sent to PJ for engraving. Joe, thanks for the measurements. Yes, I was referring to the dimension from the face of the breech to the center of the hinge pin, which is identical on the 21 and the Parker. At one time I measured several guns that appear shorter than the 21 and some are, some aren't, regardless of how they look. I like the flat side round frame 21, but wonder if it can be made even sleeker than the factory customs. Last weekend, I handled one of Tony's mini .410 21s and found that I need one.

I found the photo on gun broker.

Yeah, Bill, they are sweet aren't they? I handled one several years ago when he first introduced them. Only problem is that it was above my pay grade!

Eightbore is on the right track about illusions. The length of the frame behind the breech adds a look of length forward of the face. Too, I think the height of the action bars and the degree to which the frame is narrowed across the hinge pin can alter the apparent length. Most of the American-made frames have a similar working length (forward of the breech), and I see that the Smith is of similar length to the M21 and Parker, but the LeFever is longest at about 2.75" I bite my tongue when people ascribe the M21's strength to its long frame.

To Jeff's original question, the M21's side view is really pretty expansive and it's hard to find a better candidate for well planned custom work.

When I first met Tony in the early 1990's he had a 'mini' Model 21 in 22lr. Later he started making them in 28 gauge and 410.
I waited a long time before I had the nerve to purchase one from him but it was well worth the money and wait.
I am not sure if the reciever sizes are different between the 22lr and 28/410 but in any event they are smaller than a 20 gauge Model 21 receiver and make an excellent bird gun as well as a great piece of gunmaking.-Dick