Jeff, where did the picture of the Jaeger 21 come from? It appears to be a standard round frame 21 sent to PJ for engraving. Joe, thanks for the measurements. Yes, I was referring to the dimension from the face of the breech to the center of the hinge pin, which is identical on the 21 and the Parker. At one time I measured several guns that appear shorter than the 21 and some are, some aren't, regardless of how they look. I like the flat side round frame 21, but wonder if it can be made even sleeker than the factory customs. Last weekend, I handled one of Tony's mini .410 21s and found that I need one.