doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Webley & Scott - similar quality & price SxSs ?

Hi All,

I know little about English SxS shotguns. I've been told that the Webley & Scott boxlocks are good guns for (relatively) not too much $$$. I am interested in 2-3/4 chambers, double trigger 20ga guns good for upland hunting. Are there other English SxSs that are similar in terms of price and quality that someone in the market for their first English SxS should be considering?

TIA

--shinbone

Army & Navy guns, most of them were made by W. & Scott.

W&S boxlocks of approx 1900 to 1970 are all good workaday guns but like any gun may have suffered from use and abuse over the years.
I don't consider them very good value as they tend to attract prices in the UK out all proportion to their quality. The reason for this is that the marque is well known and everyone knows someone with one or had one once.
Internally they are okay but very much in the mould of the AYA No 4 which is essentially a copy of the W&S. For the money, I would tend towards the latter as the parts are readily available (albeit they need hand fitting) which is more than can be said for a W&S.
If you are wanting an English gun, then I would tend towards the lesser known Birmingham makers, you'll probably get more gun for your buck.
As to 20g's, relatively few were made which will push the price much higher than a 12 regardless of who made it. Furthermore, they were traditionally bought for youngsters and ladies and nearly always have been severely shortened. Fine if you are 5' 2" in your socks, a bit of a problem if you are a 6' ape!
For myself, I would go for a 6lb 12g and shoot 3/4-7/8oz loads in it.

ejsxs - Thanks for the info on the Army & Navy guns. I'll keep my eyes open for one.

Toby - Thanks for your comments and suggestions about the AYA No. 4 and other makers. I don't know much about the English gun trade - can you suggest a few of the lesser known Birmingham makers?

Thanks.

--shinbone

shinbone,

There were just too many Birmingham makers. I am sure others will make recommendations. Here is one website worth looking at:
http://www.hillrodandgun.com/invent.php

Also, check out Cabelas Gun Library. Just because they will have a variety of makers to look over.

Pete

shinbone, I'd suggest you defocus on brand name. All the ones you will belooking at will have supplied a variety of quality grade level guns. Original Quality grade (OQ) for grade and Current Condition level (CC) for level, they will be equal guns. Brand name is not a short cut to knowing the individual gun's quality.

Either postpone buying a gun until you have had sufficient time to learn about British guns or buy from a reputable dealer. Commissioning Toby above to find you a gun would be a very fine approach.

Here's two English 20's

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11655

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/conten...erarchyId=11655

I'm sure both are over priced...thing to keep in mind about English guns 'there's plenty of them out there but most have been dicked with over the years'.

Shinbone, you specified 2 3/4" chambers. That limits the pool of Brit 20's significantly. There are WAY more W&S 20's with 2 3/4" chambers, simply because in the post-war period, they were the "big dog" when it came to making boxlocks in significant quantity. As noted, 20ga does push up the price. If you were looking for a 12, you could find a nice W&S 700 for less than you'd pay for a new AyA 4/53. 20ga, that's not likely to happen. And the W&S 700 series is an awfully good place to start for your first English double.

Good solid guns. The 720 was made specifically for the American market. The Bowood, in the other advert, was later than the 700 series and although they look good they were more prone to minor problems that the 700's; so I am informed by someone in the trade. If they can be found in good condition they will hold their value well; however, a lot were hard used. Lagopus.....

Thanks for all the replies. The art and science of English shotguns seems to be a difficult subject to get a handle on for a novice like myself. The two examples at Cabelas are very informative (not to mention out of my price range). Maybe I'll just be satisfied with my RBL-20 for awhile, and watch from the sidelines.

--shinbone.