doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Charlton Hall Auctions

I see they are messing around with guns again on this Dec auction. I say messing around as I see they have not advertsised the auction much this time and also the descriptions are still vague and incomplete.

I was seriously hoping that we would have another very good auction company enter into the the mix, but I guess that will not happen or at least not yet. Maybe they have decided that the antique auctions are more in line with what they plan to do in the future.

I am quite surprised that George Lander has not given them some good, helpful suggestions as we know Geroge is active into guns and has consigned some guns to them in the past. He probably has, but maybe they have not heard him. Also, I know Dig had been of assistance to them in the past and I am sure he made some very helpful and great suggestions to further their entry into this new market.

I guess we will see what happens next

Best to all


John Boyd

Hello John: Yes, I have given Ron Long at Charlton Hall some suggestions on how to improve the Sporting Sale. He has implemented some and others, not yet.

This sale, which is tomorrow, Friday, December 4th. is a bit different from the last two. It is the first day of a three day sale. Guns of all types, swords, wildlife art are being sold. One really nice piece is a Parker Bros. .410 gauge VHE that is totally original on a 000 frame. It has a PGCA letter with it that shows 1935 production. I believe that it will do vey well.

The auction is online at CharltonHallAuctions.com with sharp pictures and good descriptions. Also included are a group of late 18th. and early 19th. century American and British sabers and swords from the Phillip Medicus collection via Norm Flayderman. Thirty or so double guns, British, German & American are included. A very nice cased Joseph Lang, a cased Arietta, a Browning Synergy 3 barrel set and several other cased sets are there.

All in all I believe that this will be their best sale yet although Dig won't be there this time. I'll try to post a report on the outcome tomorrow evening.

Best Regards, George Lander

"I was seriously hoping that we would have another very good auction company enter into the the mix, but I guess that will not happen or at least not yet. Maybe they have decided that the antique auctions are more in line with what they plan to do in the future."

This is pretty much what a few of us have said,that along with the vague discriptions and poor pictures is not in any way up to the "players" JJ,Amoskeag,and RIA.
I will say that I have seen antique auction houses bring good money for some guns if they advertise them and have at least one person who can give some normally expected info (choke,chamber,LOP,ect)

When they have a Charlton Heston memorial auction, count me in!!

It's so easy to criticize someone trying to accomplish something unique especially when you're not up to the task yourself, e.g. a high quality sporting sale down South. If any of you realized how much effort and expense goes into one of these perhaps you wouldn't be so quick to kibbitz. There will be some great buys tomorrow. I'll be there bidding along with several other knowledgeable collectors & shooters.

Best Regards, George

I'm not involved with the sale this year - just too busy with things over in the UK.

Getting into the gun auction businness in a big way is tough. It took Nick Holt a few years of scratching arond in provincial partnerships before cracking it. However, Charlton Hall are going to stick with it and i believe they will make progress.

Thsi year they built a new premises - to their own design near the local airport. This is going to provide better logistics and more space and will make business much more efficient.

The move and the building project took up a lot of time, money and focus but I think that next year the hunt for more and better guns for a dedicated sale will be on in ernest. I know they have had alot of interest from potential vendors because I have been asked to look at some of thse items and catalogue them.

I wish them well in their sale this week and I think that this time next year we will be looking at a decent sized sale with sporting guns very much dominating.

The trick is to get a sale of guns big enough to attract collectors and dealers from all around The South.

TO ALL CONCERNED: The Charlton Hall Auction just finished up it's first day, which was the guns, etc. Practically everything sold including the Parker VHE .410 which brought $9,500 (a steal)

Best Regards, George

George,

I received the flier recently on the sale and was saddened to see that there was not nearly as many sporting guns listed as were there last year. The few that were listed were not of interest to me, so I didn't bother coming. Was the lower number due to the move to the new location, or something else? Dig says he thinks there will be many more next year. Why do you think the number was down so much from last year?

Stsn

Charlton Hall auctions had the goal of testing the market to see if a market for English and some USA guns existed for a new auction entry. At least that is what the owner told me prior to CH's first auction. He further told me that he would give it a shot for a couple of years and if it did not work out to be a success, then he would carry on otherwise. You can decide for yourself what the owner is doing now.

I don't know if $9,500.00 is a steal for a VHE .410 Parker as condition is everything. However, I do know from my viewpoint there was lot of what I would classify as junk at the first auction--the only one I traveled to Columbia, SC to see. For example the BPE double rifle (Manton marked I beleive). At Holts auction in London that rusty BPE would have done well to sell for UKPounds 200. Its bore looked like the inside of iron water pipe after 20 years of use. Some poor under educated fellow paid a couple of thousand bucks for this scrap iron at the auction.

I must say however, there were some nice guns at that first auction--not stellar but nice.

At the first CH auction a painting of an Elephant by the famous English painter and collector of full-size steam locomotives, brought nearly US$100,000.00. This even surprised CH's owner. The price that this painting brought at the hammer (by a telephone bid) shows that CH antiques and fine art knowledge and sales ability is outstanding and continues to be.

I think CH's decreased focus on "fine doubleguns" is due to prudent business focus by the owner; amateur knowledge of fine English guns by the owner---that importing individuals from London for the auction did not help much; lowering value of the UKPound (2.2 to the US$ down to 1.57 to US$ during 2008-early 2009); not developing a niche that would sell in CH's market; the current economy and the need by CH to focus on its real expertise to earn profits to cover the cost of its new increased overhead. Being "too busy in UK" to attend the 2009 CH gun auction by smallbore is an interesting comment considering the above. It seems more likely that CH's owner did not think that the expense of another gun consultant at this latest auction would earn the recovery of that expense. If anything, the owner of CH is a business man who has been successful and he has likely tested the market on other items and the test either worked or did not work to earn additional profit.

However, look at Holt's today. If the economy has slowed it down I cannot see it. The current Holt's online catalog has some of the most outstanding London SLE pairs I have ever seen at any auction in the UK. I predict that the Dec 2009 auction will be big success. My problem is that I am not going to be in London this December to be able view some of these masterpieces (maybe that is OK as my cash is low and the weather last Dec in London was most miserable. If you view the Holt's current catalog you will see that that are fewer BLE and other lower priced English guns than there were a year or two ago. Holt's knows where the money is being spent in today's less than rocket economy and it is focusing upon it. Will Denys Finch Hatton's double rife bring UKpound 60,000 to 80,000? No, it will bring more.

These are my thoughts from deep in the bushveld. Merry Christmas to all.

Stan; I believe that the number of guns at CH's auction yesterday was due to a combination of factors: (1) No guns were sent from England this year, (2) Dig could not make the trip & (3) Ron wanted to test whether combining the Sporting Sale with his antiques sale, which is normally held in mid-November, would stimulate more interest and I believe that it did. The new location is great, plenty of parking and close proximity to the airport, much more room, etc. I believe that December 2010 will be much bigger than any of the previous sales.

Best Regards, George