doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1890 J P Sauer Sidelock transition gun?

Geno:

I like that large "S". Any idea to whom it might belong?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

J.P.S&S made barrels of their own and sold them to Simson even. Sauer was the only maker who had the right to put Krupp trademark 3-ring (Special barrel steel) on barrels and we can see this 3-rings not only on Sauer guns. And my guess letter S belonged to Sauer.

Any idea if Sauer fabricated the rifle barrel? Could it have been sourced from Krupp without any proof marks?
Also - please see attached photos - can you provide information on the label and whether the case might originate from the factory or from the retailer?







best regards
JBP

HAIRSBER?? I'd say Sauer peddled the 2 barrel set and the fitted case is authentic. I'm a huge case fan and really like the case by the way. Any better idea of the letters after "nach" like L?? ggg?

What's the difference in tube length in the set, 2 inches? Is one set 28" and the other 26"?

For now I think Sauer made the tube with the Henry rifling and imported the scattergun pattern welded tubes from Belgium. Now they could have easily have imported the rifled tube from Belgium also. But I don't think they did on their drillings. I would say that it was cast, but then again I don't see a Guss Stahl stamp either. If it were fluid and considering the time period, why wasn't there a advertising blitz with fluid steel stamped all over it? And how would you convince some to choose a non-pattern welded type with the other 3 tubes being pattern welded? Today if someone handed you a double with 2 distinctly different tubes, wouldn't you ask "Why???"? Maybe they wanted to keep fluid steel a secret for another year or so???? I think Sauer made it but I know they had a forge for components but an curious where their hammer forge was or if they sourced some of the work to the Jaeger klan of Johann Georg, Sr., Johann Georg, Jr. & Valtin Jaeger. But then again there's the cypher of the "CRF"(Funk as a wild guess) that is seen of tube of this period.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
the shotgun set is 29" / the combo set 27 5/8".

I believe the word in bold may be HAINSBAR?

As far as the script lettering after nach:
maybe : Lre or Lei or even Hre then your guess
gyg, or ?
Could it be Leigge or similar?
thanks again.
JBP

JBP:

Is the 29" tube a shade longer to equate 74cm? Also the cape pair would be 70cm. Does either set have a menacing muzzle or crosshatching? I was hoping someone would translate the label but it is something to the effect of 2 pieces, 162, von, and then 2 prepositions. Something to study on for sure.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I could translate it if I could see it...can't make out the words.

Okay I'll take something of a stab at the translation of the tag. It appears to my eye as a sort of shipping tag;

stuck 162 von HAIRS??? nach ???? uber ???? Roughly translated "Piece 162 off (or from) HAIRSXXX (a ship perhaps) to ??? via(uber) It certainly appears to be a an inventoried piece of luggage from some sort of shipment. The faded green script (hand written) will likely translate the "from" and "to" destinations...if one could figure that out from abreviations and faded letters. Jeff

I forgot to note that I would guess one of the "M"s to be for tube maker Max Moller(possibly of Moeller & Kellner-Zella Saint Blasii) if he was active during the 1890s and the other "M" for one of the Moritz fellas like Wilhelm Moritz of Zella Saint Blasii who founded his firm in 1869. Post WWI a Franz Moeller partnered with Martin Moritz on some venture. But the craftsmen with the letters "M" had to be a mechanic at the Sauer facility.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse