doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10 Gauge SxS for Hunting

I'm am looking to purchase a 10 gauge SxS shotgun for my father. Specifically, I need a suitable gun for duck/goose hunting. It needs to have interchangable chokes. Price range is 600-1200. Either a new or used gun is acceptable (I'm unsure if anyone is making a new 10).

I have looked on Gunsamerica, auctionarms and gunbroker, but I really dont know enough about the side by sides to make an informed decision. Can anyone recommend some guns that I should be looking for? Thanks in advance.

Good luck finding a side by side 10 gauge period on those sites. They are rare.

One of the biggest questions to answer is what chamber length. The older 10 gauges will have a short chamber, under 3 inches. Many of the newer 10 gauges will have a 3 and 1/2 inch chamber. This makes a big difference in the weight of the gun as well as the shells you will use. Many modern 10 gauge side by sides are very heavy and to my mind they point like fence posts. Although for goose hunting you may already be thinking of getting him a gun with 3 and 1/2 inch chambers. Although I have not personally seen the big advantage. I prefer a gun that points quick and shoots straight over a poor handling gun that can shoot more pellets. But, hey, that is just me.

However, the key question is: does he load his own? 10 gauge shells are getting harder to find. Short 10 gauge shells even harder.

I had a modern low end Churchill side by side in 10 gauge. It handled like a roughly hewn chunk of wood.

He will not be loading his own shells. He currently has a 10 gauge semi auto and hasn't had any trouble finding shells, although his semi does handle 3 1/2 inch shells so I'm unsure of the availability of 3 inch or even 2 3/4.

My father does a bit of collecting although all his guns hunt. He probably has between 50-75 firearms. As I said, he already has a 10 gauge but wants the SxS as he doesn't own a SxS. Also, I think he just wants a 10 SxS because they are somewhat rare as well.

Normally, for duck and geese hunting, he hunts with a 12 semi and keeps the 10 propped up against a corner of the blind for long shots. I have also been looking for a 10 O/U but they appear even rarer than the SxS's.

Danger Dan:

An Ithaca NID Super Ten 2-7/8" 10g, Field Grade or Grade 1 can possibly be found in the price range you seek. They are much livelier guns than the 10g 3-1/2" Mag, which by my lights should come equipped with a wheels and a caisson. My NID Super Ten has 32" barrels but only weighs 9 pounds - 3-1/2" mags can run over 11 pounds.

The only drawback is that 2-7/8"has very few factory sources - Bismuth cartridge makes some, and I think there are some English firms loading them. Most of us have to make our own, but as Sherman Bell demonstrates in his "Finding out For Myself" articles, the 2-7/8 is a great waterfowl cartridge, well worth the effort.

Good Luck in your quest

Regards

GKT

I found this Zabala/Kassnar 10 gauge on GunBroker: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=63107495

I'm also looking at a Churchill: http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=9404

These guns appear similar to what I need although I'm unsure about the chokes. Anyone know the quality of these guns? Specifically the Churchill verses the Zabala. Is this Churchill the same gun you said handled like a roughly hewn chunk of wood Yogi?

Edit: The Zabala at least has fixed chokes. Anyone know what the chances are of finding a 10gauge sxs with interchangable chokes? Also, can a gunsmith modify a gun with fixed chokes to interchangable and how hard is it for them to do? Will it shorten the barrells?

I'd be ashamed to call either 'club' a Churchill.

The one gun is listed as a Kassnar Windsor, "Spanish Churchill Double." My sincere appologies if I offended you by calling it a churchill. . . I take it from your informative post that you have doubts as to the quality of either gun. Perhaps as a fellow Tennessean you care to do me the favor of elaborating.

DangerDan, I have Zabala made 10 Ga. SxS, very similar to the one in the link. Mine was imported and sold by Richland Arms - probably a few years earlier than the gun you found. I bought it from a Gentleman, who is a member of this board. It is kinda Robust, but that is what you want a 3 1/2 10 Ga. to be.

The Zabala's are generally pretty fair made guns, certanly well suited to Waterfowl hunting if you can shoot them. That is a little bit of a challenge,as they take quite a bit more effort to mount and swing ! I am very happy with mine.

HomelessjOe, was most likely remarking on the irony of the use (misuse ?) of a fine old British Gunmakers name, on a some what clubby Spanish gun. Think of someone buying the Jaguar name, and putting the name plate on a F-350.

I am a Texan, but a son of a Tennessean, and I was taught from early on, if it weren't for Tennessee, there wouldn't never been a Texas !

Welcome to the board !

Thanks for the info Postoak. Does your Zabala have fixed chokes as well? Personally, I dont see fixed chokes as a problem, but my father (who the gun is for) really wants interchangable chokes.

Also, do you know if there is any difference in quality in the two guns linked above. I think that Kassnar imported both of them, but I not sure.

Thanks also for your explaination regardding Homelessj0e's comment.

Danger Dan:

The Spanish guns of the era of the Zabalas, were imported by sporting goods houses or specialty firearms importers. On Most the quality was "workmanlike", and they function well enough, but the fit , finish and balance leaves much to be desired when compared to their English namesakes. Postoak's comment was right on. There is a saying here on the board " buy the gun and not the name". That goes double for Spanish guns - some of which are utter garbage built to a Western Auto Stores "price point", quality be damned, and other Spanish guns ( usually made more recently ) are every bit as good in terms of fit, finish, balance, engraving and function as their English forbears. The trick is differentiating the crap from the cream.

As for getting a gun converted from fixed chokes to screw-in chokes, Briley in Houston does it regularly. Mike Orlen, a member of this board, does the same, I like his work and he his cheaper and quicker than Briley. That being said - the gun will be a 10 bore waterfowler. Such guns are usually pass shooters or at least distance shooters if you are using heavy shot loads. Unless you wan to play with the gun at doves with 1 oz loads ( amaze your friends) , why do you need any chokes other then Mod/Full or Full/Full? I would suggest that if you have a gun choked fixed Mod/Full, loaded with Bismuth 4's in the loose barrel and 3's ( or 2's) in the tight barrel , you will have a goose killing machine that wont hammer you to death, and it will surely do for ducks.

My thoughts.

Regards

GKT