doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gye & Moncrieff A.G. Parker Dbl Rifle 38-55 Help

Pic/article of the Gye & Moncrieff fastner as found in "Modern Sportsman's Gun and Rifle"(1882):(select page 200)

http://books.google.com/books?id=8CMLAAA...%20&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=OLwUAAA...eet&f=false

Some info from another Gye & Moncrieff post. They didn't make their examples but like many other retailers sourced their examples from others.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The proofs are from the London proofhouse of course.
"38" is the pre-rifling gauge stamp which would mean that a plug of 0.497" would pass the whole length while a plug gauge of .492 would not. "38" was typical for a 500-bore or 1/2 inch. The probability of it originally being a 38-55 is quite slim without some later modification in the U.S. of A. and without any case measurements I would guess the 38-55 brass is the parent of the formed 360(2 1/4") BPE(Black Powder Express) which would have had a bore stamp of 118.35 or 118/35. The 360 surfaced circa 1873 and there were at least 3 case lenghts:
2 1/4"
2 7/16"(the once Alexander Henry really cottoned to)
2 3/4".

A chamber cast would tell the tale as well as some of your case data. I have some 360 2 1/4" from Buffalo arms which has a 30-40 Krag headstamp and I'll check on converting 38-55.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

the .360 bpe is easily made from 9.3x72r brass. If you pass on that little rifle, please let me know. It would be right at home next to my hammerless Henry in the 2&7/16" chambering.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u82/bertrams_photos/DSCN1209.jpg?t=1261920572

Peter may have it here. Just guessing, but your example with non-rebounding hammers, sidelever, proofmarks, etc. would at the very least be pre-1887 and probably a pre-1875 with an altered set of tubes by "Bisley Works, Birmingham(?)(Rifle and Gun?)" post 1912 to 360 BPE, which would go right along with their pre-WWI relining effort, and you have modified 38-55 brass formed to the chamber. But why is it void of repair/reproof marks(maybe done during the War???)?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

kcgunesq,

A chamber cast and bore slug are really going to be required to figure out those barrels. IF they are 500 BPE, then you are looking at would could be a pricey gun. Even if they are 38-55 the price could be more than you imagine, if they are properly regulated.

Here are 2 Alexander Henry guns for sale, both 500 BPE
http://www.cabelas.com/gun-inventory---wheeling---fine-rifle---1065973-ahenry577-whe.shtml

http://www.brileygunvault.com/alexanderhenry500bpe.aspx

My best guess. The gun was made up very early on. For one reason or another much later, a second set of barrels was made up for it.

Pete

Thanks!!! All great information!

Thank you very much for everyone's help, especially Pete and Raimey! Part of me is disappointed to find out it is potentially such a nice sample. With my second child on the way in three months, it sounds like I won't be able to afford this gun. I could have swung something like $1,500 or so, but it sounds like this is probably worth something like several times that, significantly more.

I will pass along all of the information to the owner and see if he wants me to have someone slug the barrels. Is this something that any competent gun smith should be capable of doing, or is it worth sending this gun to a renowned expert for evaluation?

Either way, I will keep everyone updated. If he decides to sell it, I will advise.

Thank you again very much. I definitely appreciate how much help and kind assistance everyone has offered to the new guy.
I use the same username on several firearm, watch and jewelry forums. Please don't hesitate to say hi if you every see me online.

You can do a chamber cast and slug bore with wax. It is not a very hard thing to do. You simply need a good mic. The owner may or may not want a retail price for it. Talk to him. This gun most likely will not bring the price of a better known maker. It is a side lever, a much older locking mechanism. It has likely been rebarreled so it is not a collectable. You get the idea.... He may be willing to take monthly payments... Good luck with the new baby.

Pete

Even with these faults I'd sure like to own it and I expect most of the membership here would like to as well.
Jim

On this assessment of value...





I don't at all think that the 'older locking mechanism' is a 'minus' on valuation.
It's an interesting locking system with a desirable lever configuration.

Also on the re-barreling issue.
If this rifle has been re-barreled by the noted *proper vintage period* British rifle specialists, in the context of this rifle (not a top-shelf Holland and Holland, James Purdey and Sons, etc example...) that's not necessarily much of a 'minus' either.
If it's not screwed up, and if the bores are good, and if it's regulated properly - and it's accurate, it only makes the rifle more interesting.

If the current owner of the rifle wants to give the Original Poster of this thread a deal on it then great - but I don't agree at all that the rifle is not collectible or that it's locking mechanism configuration makes it undesirable.
It appears to be a very charming and sweet-handling little express rifle, in very nice high condition.
Fifteen hundred dollars would be an absolute steal.
Hooray for the owner and the original poster if given a proper good look at it - then arrive at such a price.
Good things do sometimes happen in this world.
My sense is that if that rifle were to go to auction here in the
US it would get much more than fifteen hundred dollars.




Cheers
Tinker