doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Resurrection of the Lefever

I think some here are not appreciating the violent forces generated upon firing that act to spring, break, crack, and peen the parts of poorly designed guns. The cheaper hardware store guns we see that are loose, wobbly, broken, severely off-face pieces of junk didn't start out life that loose. Time, use, and abuse winnows out the poor designs and shows us which guns are the product of firearms genius and superior design. Side clips, at first glance, wouldn't seem to add anything to lock-up and ridigity upon firing, but they certainly do.

Loadup is a slang term.

It has nothing to do with orientation or direction

While I appreciate the asthetics of antique Lefevers, the dollshead feature requires two opposing surfaces to be in contact. The breachface and forward side of the dollshead. In theory, the dollshead would not allow the barrels to get off face. But we know better than that. Plastic deformation occurs and these opposing surfaces no longer are in contact simultaneously.

If the barrels get off face and are put back on face, contact of the forward surface of the dollshead is lost. Now the frame has to flex for the dollshead to make contact and begin to bear the load (load up).

Still using a phone for this, now in DC. Gotta run

Since were on the Lefever what is the little screw in the tang ahead of the safty used for ? Mine is a F Grade #186xx. Thanks I think I saw this before but cant remember.

Converts the safety from automatic to manual, or vice versa. Tighten it down to make the safe manual, loosen for automatic.

Sorry about the error in my last post. Not only do late Trojan Parkers have no doll's head, no Trojans have a doll's head. While I'm here, I will take Miller's lead and mention that DS and I Grade Lefevers have no doll's head. All of these guns are among the most durable of American shotguns. Did I leave out L.C. Smiths, Foxes, Model 21s, Ithacas? 680 series Beretta over unders have a device that serves the purpose of putting pressure on the same area of the breech where a perfectly fitted doll's head is supposed to put pressure. On higher end 680 series Berettas, this device is made replaceable, supposedly because it has a purpose. However, it is obviously not neccesary for this device to be in good contact for the gun to be durable, because in many models of the 680 series, it is not replaceable, and these guns also seem to last several lifetimes of shooting.

Jim
Yes Indeed I have looked at a Lefever. They are my favorite double & I own several. You, obviously didn't understand my last post very well. I there stated if you removed the extension rib the bbls would fall oipen as stated. If however you only removed the "Doll's Head" portion they would not. Yes I am well aware that it is all made in one piece, but the sideward projections which mortise into the frame recess is the distinction between a rib extension & a Doll's Head.
What I was (Very Obvious if you carefully read my previous post) referring to is you could remove the doll's head portion (Grinding, filing, milling etc) from the sides of the rib & have effectively removed the "Doll's Head" leaving a simple extension rib as on a DS. The bbls then would "Not" fall open.
My entire point was that even though in the case of the Lefever they are combined into one piece the doll's head & bolting have seperate functions & should be considered seperately.
The bolt holds the bbls "Down" but offers no resistance to axial thrust. The doll's head resists axial thrust but plays no part in holding the bbls down. It simply rotates into its seat.
I in fact in my last post told Jim that I understood what he was saying (obviously he was referring to cutting the hold assembly off flush with the breech) but I wanted to make sure "Everyone" understood the bbls would fall open "Not" because you removed the "Doll's Head" but because you removed the bolting notch. The doll's head could indeed be converted to a straight rib & the bolting notch would be retaianed & the bbls would remain closed. Have you looked at a DS or I grade?? I in fact referenced these grades in my explanation.
My reference to the "Fallacy" concerning the doll's head was based upon the fact I have over the years read many opinions stating the doll's head was totally useless because it offers no helping in keeping the bbls closed. It was quite obviously never intended for that purpose, but this doesn't mean it plays no part in adding to the integrity of the gun.

Chuck;
Yes what you say is true, but won't you agree it is "Also True" that the more surface area you have in contact to resist a force there will be "Less" plastic deformation. In the case of the same hinge joint with & without a well fitted doll's head, does not the one having the D'H ofer more area to handle that force & would thus go longer before plastic deformation became a problem. Also will you not agree in resisting a force it is virtualy alway better if that force can be "Resisted" from "Both Sides" rather than offset to "One Side Only".

The screw does not convert the Lefever from auto to manual safety. The screw locks the safety OFF. With the barrels held wide open, the screw can be turned in to a hole in the safety slide and holds it back, always OFF safety, until that action is reversed. I use mine that way, at the range. Reverse it for field use. One more brilliant detail about the Lefever design.

To 2-Piper: Thank you for your last explanation about the doll's head. You and I are usually like two barrels on a double gun, on most subjects and the only reason we were not, on this one was because I misunderstood your position. I'm happy for that to be the case, this time. I certainly agree that the rounded, knob shape of the extension has nothing to do with holding the barrels down. Lots of other guns, Parkers among them, have doll's head extensions that do not have locking lugs built into them and, as you said, simply resist the barrel's tendency to move forward, when fired.
"Together again".
Thanks again,

Thank you, Miller.