doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com American Gun Company Highwall Model 1885 Now Out

Time will tell, in the question of whether the actions will continue to be produced.

So far as history goes, the appearance of a clone usually/always signals a RISE in the price of originals, witness the 1878 Borchardt and Ballard actions.

I personally don't care whether the receivers are cast or forged but my Fearless Forecast is that, if the parts won't interchange with originals, then the action's production life will be fairly short. So far at least, Uberti is about the only maker to successfully market an 'improved' high wall action for any length of time.

I hope AGC was smart enough to ensure the interchangeability of their parts with originals; we'll see.
Regards, Joe

Talked with Dan at McGownen Barrels last week about these.
They are still working out some bugs. Frames are cast 4140 series steel, done buy the same foundry doing Sharps, all exposed areas will be finish machined. As I understand they are working to make these identical to the originals. I also asked them to look at offering these in 8620 steel for those wanting the frames CCH, as we all know 4140 is not a case hardening steel.

As said before ..time will tell, so who's going to buy the first one to give the rest of us a report?



Mike

Gentlemens:

When I talked with the people from AGC a couple years ago it was their intent to recreate the original Winchester action. In fact they have some original set trigger units of mine for reverse engineering. They wanted to offer all three of the original Wichester set triggers.

I sure don't see any reason to be trashing the company at this point. It sure enough can't be a bad thing to have source of actions. I personally wish them all the best with the project. May it be fruitful and multiply!

Glenn Fewless

Glenn,
I'd love to see a quality High Wall reproduction!
The issue is not "trashing" the Co. at all, it is trashing the greed factor, and commenting on the product that is quite naturally influenced by the long delay and the way we first experienced the actions availability. If you are "in" with the Co. you might suggest a more diplomatic approach to bringing an actual produciton action in view of the public. You've to to admit that seeing a link to a GB listing at $1000, of 4140 castings and promices of better quality in the future....
This Co. ought to send you one to examine and review. This is the way introducing new actions was handled in former times. When introduced by someone wanting to "gouge" the resale market, regardless of company intent, it understandably causes bad feeling right off the bat.
In any case, I'm not going to be interested at $1000, without dished (thin) sides nor with an octagon top. (I hand-filed one of the early Single Shot Inc. actions round topped ages ago!)
Steve

BTW: I've seen literally a dozen or more SS actions come and go over the years starting with the Falling Block Works we bought at TSJC bookstore in the 1970's. I am naturally sceptical. And I naturaly lament the un-availability of the former Ballard-Ron Long action that was everything it was supposed to be.

Glenn,

I agree with a lot of what Steve just said. I would love a good single shot action 85 or Ballard that was made like the originals and at the same time affordable. I believe that if a company would make such a thing they would sell like hotcakes. I also vote for thin side and round top. I agree that you or someone else who UNDERSTANDS and WORKS with the Winchester 1885 action get one and review it for one of the Single-Shot publications.

Well, C.Sharps has been making such actions for some time. They are not making a lowwall. They cost a lot more than $1000 though.

I know you guys are all well connected and cheap actions are falling out of your pockets whenever you need one, but for most folks, original highwall actions start at $1k and go up. And then they will need a lot of work.

The octagon top is interesting to me. And you can make an octagon round. You cannot make a round octagon in most cases. So that option seems reasonable to me.

Rough or not, I don't see why you guys are beating up ANY new action manufacturer. And if someone thinks he can sell one of these for $1k, more power to him. That's capitalism for ya, and I don't think it is a bad thing. I don't even see it as being greedy.

I do not understand the level of criticism around here for anything but a very narrow and effectively extinct lineage of firearms by mostly dead guys.

Brent,
I can't speak for anyone but myself but I got interested in Schuetzen and single-shot rifles around 1970. My first target rifle was High-Wall pistol grip 32-40 with a custom stock from a Winchester collector friend. He bought a large collection but did not want this because of the custom stock. It came with a Winchester A5 scope and the price was around $200. There were no copies on the market of any single-shot then. When it was time to get a better target rifle I bought Pope-Ballard No.24 (.32-40) then Stevens-Pope Ballard 511(.32-40. When I was offered Pope Ballard No. 373(33-40) with all the tools I had to sell No. 24 & 511 and darn near everything in the way of a firearm to pay for it. As the new made single-shots actions showed up on the market they were re-designed or I found them lacking in one way or the other to originals. I then started to collect any good action when I found one and could afford it. I've used my last Ballard sometime back and liked the No. 6 that Ballard rifle company was making, The new company would not sell me one so I'm back looking for an original! Color me jaded or just set in my ways, I started with originals, very few of the clones measure up, if the new one does I'll buy from them.

Hey, I don't think you should have to buy one. I like the originals too. But the fact is, most of use can't find and can't afford them.

My last rifle is a highwall made on a Ballard action, that I really just lucked into. It is pretty good. But it cost much more than the one discussed here.

We all like what we like, but how come we have to beat down what we aren't interested in? Let's hope the guys get it all together. Meanwhile, most of us will be looking for a C. Sharps or Meacham, or whatever we can find and afford at the time. For some folks, this might be the ticket. And if they need a thinside, it can be so made of course. Mine was.

Brent

PS. I have an original Ballard #5 action that I might part with. But it comes with an original stock, barrel, and sights. Might cost a pretty penny more than $1k.

I don't think guys were "trashing" the Co, so much as they were the "greed factor" of the "Purveyor" and being that originals can still be bought for less ( $ 650. and $ 750. at the last Allentown gun show ) I think $ 1000. is way over priced.

I tend to get upset with guys that seem to be into guns only to see if they can make a fast buck, yes a dealer has to make a living, I know this as fact retiring from the full time gun business after 35 years, but some guys seem to do nothing but try an take advantage of fellow Single Shooters and there profit margin is almost immoral.
S T

Since I jumped into this, I might as well finish it. What's wrong with the guy asking that price or any price he damn well wants? I don't agree with the prices SDH asks for the guns he sells. So what? I just won't buy one of them. I won't call him names.

If you have $650 actions at gun shows, or even $750 actions, maybe you should buy them all, ship them out here and sell them for hideous profit or better a small profit for the benefit of everyone that cannot find such things at ANY PRICE at a gun show (or much of anywhere else).




Then I take it you are upset with Meacham, Ballard Rifle (when they used to sell actions), C.Sharps and American's in general.

crap, I don't know the guy selling it, and I don't want it, but damn if I don't think he deserves to try to sell it for any price he damn well wishes. I have a rifle for sale in the classifieds. It may be overpriced or underpriced, but the price reflects what I'm willing to exchange for it. If you and 6 billion other folks don't like it, I'll keep it. I'm sure the action dealer feels the same way.

I didn't realize guns have come to pricing by committee these days.
Brent