doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com hopkins and allen

That Lyman book may very well have some suggestions on the bigger buck sizes. I have the same book but haven't had a chance to look at it, relative to this discussion. My concern would be that the really large pellets might not deform quickly enough to go through a really tight choke in older, softer barrels, without some strain or possible deformation of the muzzle, especially if the walls are worn thin. Might be just fine. Enjoy it.
Thank you,

Did anybody read what I wrote about seeing Parker damascus orders that specifically call for the gun to be patterned with "Large Buckshot"? If it's safe in damascus I'd say fluid steel should probably take it in stride.

I wasn't trying to be a smart alec, I was simply trying to be reasonable and not a knee jerk reactor like our friend Jim here. He's already said that bullseye powder isn't safe for shotguns then you followed up with loads out of a handbook for it. Who you gonna believe......

Destry

i just take all the info sort it out and verify it all. its not a matter of beliveing any of you since we dont know each other lol. and yes i did read about the large buckshot in damascus, i wasnt worried so much about the lead passing through the steel barrel. but maybe the pressure of modern shells compared to shells made say 75 years ago, stouter recoil shooting the gun loose ect.maybe cracking the frame stuff like that. thanks

There is a danger in using data from older reloading manuals with current powders and components. I have seen data for Bullseye in 12 ga loads in manuals before, but I have always thought that it was too fast burning for my applications. At one time DuPont had data for 700x in several gauges, including 28 ga., but it disappeared in later editions. Speer manual #9 had a load of 10gr. of SR4756 with a 110gr. bullet for the .38 Spl. DuPont didn't even recommend that much 4756 for .357 Mag. and the 10gr. load was not in the Speer #10 manual. What changed? Be careful of the data you use, and compare several sources is my best advice.

Doubleshot, I was beginning to doubt my initial advice to you until reading your last comments. The other guys who wrote and said that it is unlikely that you will blow yourself up firing occasional rounds of factory loads are probably correct. They are equally correct that this gun is not especially valuable. But the many specimes we see that are damaged or loose are likely the result of using higher pressure nitro loads.

These guns were originally made for the lower pressure stuff of the time, and really didn't fare all that well with that compared to some of their better designed and built competitors. Even more telling than the loose H&A guns we see are the ones that have already been scrapped or parted out.

So if your intent is to maintain the soundness of one of the few remaining tight and on face H&A doubles, it would be advisable to stick with lower pressure stuff. The factory loads which will kick more and eventually damage the wood and lock-up of even the best older American doubles will do the same to guns such as yours... only much faster.

It might be fun to enter the family minivan in the Daytona 500. But it ain't going to last for too many laps.

I was shooting geese on Saturday with a Parker factory magnum barreled 10 gauge using modern 3 1/2 inch ammo. Maybe I should buy an 870 and just put the old guns in the closet cause I might scratch one of them. Yeah right.....

Guns are for shooting boys, if you aren't gonna use them then sell them to somebody who will. It's a crime to leave a good duck or bird gun laying fallow.

DLH

any suggestions on load psi for this particular gun? what would have been standard in the day? Markethunter, shooting geese with that parker 10 sounds ideal. as a teen i ran beagles and shot a lot of rabbits with my grandmothers parker 16ga. that was probably the best shooting shotgun i ever had the pleasure to use. this ol H&A might not make it as a magnum yote killer but i hope to put it too use at least on rabbits, ducks, grouse,be fun to use over decoys since here in maine your allowed 1 black duck a day lol even i can afford bismuth for that. thanks

I wasn't saying Doubleshot shouldn't use his gun for it's intended purpose. "It's a crime to leave a good duck or bird gun laying fallow"? Well that, or worse is exactly what's going to happen after someone beats the crap out of it with loads is was not designed to handle.

There are plenty of low pressure loads that will kill a coyote or fox and still leave the gun in sound shape to use another day.

Maybe the guys who restore and fly WWII aircraft should take their P51 Mustangs and Messerschmidts, load up the guns and cannon, and dogfight till they crash and burn instead of just flying around at air shows. After all, that was their intended purpose. Better yet, yank out the original gas engines and put a couple jet engines on their wings, because what they were designed to use isn't quite good enough. Then fly 'em till their wings and canopies peel off. Geez.

The man said he was thinking of non-magnum loads, did you actually read his posting? By your philosophy, a 1 1/4 ounce high brass #6 would be too much for the gun.

Keep yours in the closet, take them out only to shoot clays and preserve pheasants on warm sunny days, then wipe them off with a diaper and store them away again. Like I just said in another thread, different strokes for different folks.

I'll lay in the snow with mine, waiting for geese to decoy while icicles hang off the end of the tubes. I'll call in and kill my birds clean with a good stiff fowling load just like the ol' boy that ordered the gun would have used. You have your kinda fun and I'll have mine.


Destry

P.S. to doubleshot: PM me your address and I'll send you enough shells for your first 10 blackducks with that Hopkins and Allen.

Yes, I read the mans post. He said non-magnum 2 3/4" factory loads... the kind that generate in excess of 11,000 psi... far more than what was on the market when this gun was built. Are we even sure the gun has 2 3/4" chambers? You are quite correct that there were good stiff fowling loads in use when this gun was ordered. They were plenty stout enough to hunt certain species to the brink of extinction. But they were loaded with black or the then new bulk smokeless that did not produce the pressures that even low brass Wally World loads produce today.

Did you actually read MY posting? I never told him to hide his gun in a closet. Doubleshot can have his cake and eat it too. He can easily buy or reload shells that will do what he wants without cracking his 100 year old wood or springing his action. I hope he takes you up on your offer of free ammo, but I hope he shoots it in a gun that was designed to handle it.

I hunt and target shoot with my old doubles. I believe, as you do, that was their intended purpose. Maybe I like them more than you, because I choose not to slowly destroy mine. I like to think that future generations can enjoy them too because I wasn't so arrogant as to say, "It's my gun, and I'll f**k it up if I want to."

I like to think that if I am ever fortunate enough to own an Optimus or A-1 Special, that I would shoot it and take it hunting. That would be cool. But I sure as hell won't be stuffing a factory load that is stiffer than a 1900 era proof load into it just to try to reach a duck or pheasant five yards further out. What would that prove? That I'm not quick enough or good enough to shoot at a reasonable range?