doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Need help with Francotte I.D.

IMHO that's a pretty reasonable description and conclusion.
Enjoy it.

Yes, this very issue has come up several times. This time it has remained civil, and I am thankful for that. We should be able to disagree on a point and be able to do that. I appreciate everyone's participation on the matter.

I think the deciding factor is the Crowned AF mark. I have seen it on several guns marked as Francotte Arms, I don't believe I have ever seen one without it. That's not to say they aren't out there, of course. It is my opinion that the "genuine" Francotte & Cie would have very quickly brought legal action against anyone using a copy of their manufacturer's mark fraudulently. The mark appears to be genuine. I didn't come up with this line, by the way, I read it somewhere, published by someone else. I am just to old to remember where. This is the same mark used on higher grade Francotte guns. Here's the mark, at the bottom of each of the barrel flats on the photo below:

Me too. I like civil.

Regarding the proof, manufacturers stamp their own goods, not those of others. If there is conjecture about origin, I guess I don't see why.

FWIW, from the Blue Book of Gun Values:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/EveryGun/GunMfgCategoryDetail.aspx?id=737

"Original A. Francotte SxS shotguns must have the "Francotte Choke Bore" marking on the water table. Be wary of fake barrel and frame markings, as some guns have recently surfaced that are not Francotte but have the Francotte name."

Regarding the gun in question, the two 'crown over AF' marks, along w/ the large 'F' in front of the flats, just look 'wrong' to me...JMHO.

Would someone counterfeit a low line gun? That's like printing your own $5 bills. Thanks for the observation and advice Randall. The doves won't know and a light gun beats a heavy one in a dusty field in September.

Much easier to pass along (ie fool someone) w/ a lower model. How many $5 bills have you ever seen someone check w/ a paper pen or light? Now how about $100s?

Adding the Francotte marks to a gun like this might have been an effort to double or possibly triple the original sale price. Again, JMHO.

A.Francotte shop had two type of sighning their guns, high and mid grade guns - A.Francotte & Cie and low grade guns - Francotte Arms.
Taken from 1930-33 A.Francotte catalog.

Exactly.
No mention of Francottes Arms @ all.

I have just acquired a Belguim A & F 20 guage over,under in a leather case with Francotte name. The gun could be over 50 years old. How can I tell if it is Francotte and the year made? There are several numbers (V19025). Thanks in advance for any help

Post some pictures.

Here are the Belgian proof marks
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

And makers trade marks.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html


Pete