I dont want what I said taken out of context. I got the 3 Ithacas I mentioned from a local farmer, who had picked them up at farm sales over the years. They were too good to pass up at the price. I shot them, as I said, hunted them, and liked them. I didnt find anything ugly or particularly clumsy about them. BUT I am a Lefever guy,and dont keep much except those. FYI: I picked up a Parker from the same gentleman, didnt keep it eother...