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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,862 Likes: 124
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
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1907 records show L.C. Smith 12 ga. to be .728. In 1936 they show them to be .729 both right past the forcing cones.
Later I see tolerances for .732 +.000-.002.
Most have .729-.732.
I do have a 1913 Specialty Gr. with both bores at .723 and .014 choke in right barrel and .010 in left barrel. Has a HOT trigger and wonder if it was set up for a lefty.
Only one other with small bores and that is a 1899 back action hammer gun with .724 bores and .040 choke in both barrels.
16 ga. from inception, 1895-96 were .650 bores and sometime in the 1930's were changed to .662. Chambers were 2 9/16" until late 1930's early 1940. A 1939 Field Gr has .662 and 2 9/16" chambers with the new Single Sighting Plane.
10 ga. was from what I can see .775 until discontinued and 2 7/8" chambers from 1886.
David
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,353 Likes: 1788
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,353 Likes: 1788 |
Perfect-the impotent hillbilly game-hog and the guy with the 55 gallon drum of acetone are in alignment and agreement.
All is almost right in the world, now. In the meantime, you two should get a room. jOe can then demonstrate his pneumatic sleever for you.
A tighter bore would SEEM to indicate a gun with a preference for felt wads, typical of European loadings. My limited testing indicates that plastic wads (think Federal loadings) aren't quite up to the performance of felt wad (think Eley Gamebore) loads, in the case of THIS gun. The "Elephant in the room" notwithstanding, I'd sure like to know why.
Got to be the tight holes (in the barrels of the gun, not in you two idiots) or the tight chokes, or the wrong ammunition be fed to the gun.
Anyone?
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,585 Likes: 2347 |
Ted, I don't think it could possibly have anything to do with the .725 bore diameter. Both my MX-8's are .725 and pattern several loadings just fine, as are thousands of other Perazzis which throw beautiful patterns. As was said earlier, other makes typically have tight bores also, tight as compared to what is supposedly the standard, .729. Plastic shot cups are very forgiving of bore diameters, IMO.
I'd say just experiment some more with different loads, shot sizes, velocities, etc. Surely something will pattern better, unless you really do have some screwed up chokes.
Stan
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
I'm not kidding about the 54 points constriction but I did check again and it was not Merkel o/u but Manufrance Ideal. Bore of left barrel is .721" and reading with the bore mic zeroed to the bore, I get 54 points under in the choke. Seems a bit over the top to me but what do I know? Appears I can't meet the politburo's standard for acceptable questions so's I guess I'll go cry me a river.
jack
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,465 Likes: 89
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,465 Likes: 89 |
Tip....buy English SxS's and you won't need to worry yer head off 
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
I guess I'll spring for the Eley Gamebores, shoot a few from these 13 gauges and then cut up one and find out what the wad stack is. If you have any other thoughts/results on this, Ted, please let me know.
jack
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,862 Likes: 124
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,862 Likes: 124 |
Jack, I've heard of chokes being .044. From Hunter Arms Co. dated 6-3-36, they give Bores of Tubes as Ordered, 12 ga. .684 with a bore of .729. That would be .045. I'm wondering if these chokes were never finished from the factory to be .054.
I agree to what Stan said, try some other loads, everyone will be different. You will find one you like.
I had read somewhere that you should shoot 10 rounds each of the different makes, loads to see what is the best for that gun.
David
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,152 Likes: 873
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,152 Likes: 873 |
16 ga. from inception, 1895-96 were .650 bores and sometime in the 1930's were changed to .662. Chambers were 2 9/16" until late 1930's early 1940. A 1939 Field Gr has .662 and 2 9/16" chambers with the new Single Sighting Plane.
Is this size change in 16 gauge bore dimension just an L. C. Smith thing, or did other makers also change the specs of 16 bore diameters. Very interesting, and this shows why measuring chokes alone can be very misleading about what patterns to expect from a given gun.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
JDW writes: "I'm wondering if these chokes were never finished from the factory to be .054." Hadn't thought of that either. Chokes left super-duper full and no customer preference acted on. That would also make the gun "supra" original. Isn't that a stitch?
jack
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,862 Likes: 124
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,862 Likes: 124 |
Keith, I've always said "unless you know bore, you won't know choke size." Some have these choke gages, look nice, sone give thousands on one flat and choke denomination on another. Sticking them into the muzzle will only give you a reading. If we assume .730 is bore and if the bores were honed from the forcing cone to say 15-20 inches from breech to remove some pitting and are now .740. If your choke gage is showing you imp.cyl say .010, you really have cyl.
This is very important in older guns and also in some of these European guns.
David
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